Interview with Yo! Sushi & Yotel Founder Simon Woodroffe: On Grit, Growth, and Getting It Done

Arthur: Simon, what a pleasure to have you on. The founder of Yo Sushi . looking at what you've been up to, it's really clear that , you really show your vulnerability and are very honest about your journey to date. One thing that's really clear is that you love to give to people. Talk to me about that.

Simon: Look I'm as selfish as the next person and I always have been, I think what happens in life is that you find little talents do you have, and there are a lot of things I'm not talented at, but actually seeing what people can do and yeah, I think I have a talent for that.

And it's fun to exercise your talent, like I learned. When I started, yo, I learned to draw on cad. I learned to do accounting. Somebody asked me to do public speaking. I never knew I could do that, and I did it. And in the same way that, I've done social media and I've been doing quite a bit of that recently and talking to people and you [00:01:00] just follow your nose to what's enjoyable.

So I wouldn't say I'm all together altruistic, but it is very gr it is very gratifying when people say, that's made a big difference to me. Yes, that's true.

Arthur: So it, it's interesting that, because a lot of people talk about, how important the first steps are to, to, to trying things and having that mentality and are there some experiences you can look back on that make you feel like that gave you that mentality? Do you think it was the way you were brought up or your, your experience in trying new things or curiosity?

What gives you

Simon: it's the big question, isn't it? It's what's genetic and what's experience. I dunno what's genetic, but certainly my experience growing up, I had, I think I had a fairly difficult childhood. Days I sort controlling dad and a very emotional mom. And and not a great deal was talked about in the family home.

And I, probably actually the word I've always used, I think I probably grew up with. Low self-esteem [00:02:00] covered up with bravado and the bravado is lasted to this day. So I've used it to my advantage, I think. But there's a, I think, certainly with entrepreneurs, I think one of the things I've observed is that the needs to be a bit of grit in the oyster.

Something that needles you or something you think you can do better or desire to prove yourself or whatever it is for you. So if the, if your audience is listening. And you are one of those slightly difficult people, or a bit chippy or angry or whatever. I'll tell you what, you're in the right place.

It's gonna get you out doing things. So don't go and get too well adjusted. It certainly has driven me to go and do things and try and prove myself. So it's in that respect. I think, you can analyze all sorts of things psychologically, but certainly being a bit chippy and I'm not now, I'm, you can see me now.

I'm just, I'm easy with life, but it hasn't always been easy and that has got me going.

Arthur: . Looking back at earlier on in your journey, before, [00:03:00] before the days of in the restaurant world, I'd love to hear a bit more because there was a stint spent in jail,

Simon: is true. Yeah. Yeah.

Arthur: which is such a, an extraordinary fact an experience that you've had. So many people have those moments. Certainly some of the most interesting people I know have had those moments where they've been in such a situation where they've really had to learn about themselves in such a, unique way. Talk to us about how those tough moments have

Simon: the, actually I have to admit to you something, Arthur, is that before I before I did this little interview with you, I did look at one of the others you had done and the first question you asked. Your interviewee was, tell me about yourself. So I thought I better think about that.

So I thought that what I would say if I was asked that question was that I left school when I was 16 with two O levels and soon after in my sort of what you referred to, my first really entrepreneurial endeavor was on a very small scale at the age of 17 [00:04:00] in 1969, that would be I was busted for drugs and went to jail to a young person's jail for three months.

So that was a big influence, not least of which is don't ever break the law. It's not fun. And then I joined the Rock and Roll Circus. I went on the road really as a roadie putting lights up in the very early days of rock shows and I beca from there. I became a stage designer and did a lot of big rock shows from Motorhead to the Moody Blues, to Elton and Rod and all those people.

And I was a stage designer. And then we did that, I did that through till about 1985 and 1985 was the year of the first, the big live rock show events, which was live aid. And I thought, I better get outta this business before I get found out. And I'm very proud of what I did when I look back now. But that's what it felt like at the time.

And I got lost for yet again in my life. And I reinvented myself in the television world selling television rights. I knew the managers of lot of the big rock bands, and I sold television rights when MTV was just [00:05:00] emerging and onto the scene. And what did I do then? And then I did extreme sports for television, and then I got lost again and got divorced and thought and came up with yo sushi one way or another.

And that's in a, that's a very brief nutshell of the story of my life and my influences

Arthur: it's, it is funny. An amazing song called the Sun Cream song. I dunno if you've come across it

Simon: go on.

Arthur: which I'd recommend to anyone. But in, there's a, there's one line which is super fantastic, which is talks about how people's lives change.

It'll be some idle, random Tuesday where you'll meet someone or you'll hear news that changes your life. And it sounds like your journey, or at least many people's journeys have. Come through strange moments which have inspired them and led them to let led them into trying things.

Does that resonate with you

Simon: Yeah, I think so. I think that's the entrepreneurial story. It's a, it is a series of happenstance. I think if you go to university and you study accountants and you become an accountant and [00:06:00]you can pretty well map out a world and how life will unfold for you if you don't have that.

And certainly I didn't because I didn't have the qualifications and, I was a rock and roller in many ways. I. Yeah, I just I had a business partner when I was in the stage design business called Jeremy Tom and his previous company, he was a character and his previous company was called Say Yes, and he did film production and all these sort of things.

But basically his thing was, I'll just say yes to everything. And I remember picking that up and I suppose I've carried that with me and generally. Whether it's coming to do a podcast with you or whatever it is I try to say yes as much as possible without thinking about it too much. Very often, people think, oh, that I've gotta be careful.

I've gotta have the right PR to check with things and things. And I found that news talked about me being honest and vulnerable. I've found that by being like that, by being myself. I haven't set out to say I'm gonna be a super honest person, [00:07:00] but that's become my modus operandi and it's never got me into trouble.

I suppose if it got me into trouble, I would've stopped doing it, so it hasn't. So I find that certainly with journalists in the old days of journalists, I was popular with journalists is the truth. 'cause I talked to them about how things were and actually also I was I was always interested in what they were doing and what was interesting and I gave them my personal number and said, call me anytime.

And as, as a result, I got obviously attracted a lot of attention, but I think I got a lot of attention because getting into another realm here, but I didn't talk about in the restaurant world, for example, and I've been in many different businesses, but I didn't talk about how good the food was or how great the ambience was 'cause everybody's gonna say that.

But I talked about the world and life and everything according to me. And I was very aware that if you give people good copy, if you give people good and interesting stories, they're gonna publicize you. That's their business. Why wouldn't they?

Arthur: Yeah. Super interesting. It certainly, i'm always inspired by [00:08:00] people who are around me who are very good at doing things, getting things done not thinking too much about it. And,

Simon: you are one of them, aren't you?

Arthur: yes setting the podcast, it's about figuring them out coming across all sorts of challenges that, somehow you do figure it out.

I'd love to hear some stories about it could be any of your businesses, but where there might have been, just really unsurprising things that have happened. Perhaps a bit of lark meeting someone to make something happen. The complexity in my primitive experience in business, even EE even getting the most simple things done right is actually such a challenge.

And how much the detail matters and things are so many, so much more complicated than meets the eye. Yeah, talk to me about

Simon: what things have happened? We got an early one was I when I did the lighting. For the rock shows. I used to look at those rock shows and think, wouldn't it be great if these could be big sub spectacles like Busby Burke did. And of course, in those days there was rock and roll movie show business and never the Twain should meet, it was a nama.

This is music man. [00:09:00] And and actually I started a lighting company with a guy called Ricky Farr, who was the guy who put on the first Isle of White festival. And I didn't know how to run a company or anything like that, but I went and bought the lights and we did the thing, and amazingly, and Ricky actually, because he had good connections and he had a sound company and he got the gig to do the, one of the early Rod Stewart tours.

And and so I was gonna do the lighting for it, which was a very big break for me. At that time, rod was just emerging as a major star. And the manager called that one day and said, rod wants a great big white stage. And I happened to have worked in theaters and I'd driven the Richmond theater van, so I knew my way around where you got rostrums and drapes and things thing.

And also as a kid, I'd grown up, I was really keen on sailing. My dad used to take a sailing and I used to draw these boats to scale so I could use a scale role. So long and short of it, I, I drew these, I got these drawings done and got a rendering done and drew this stage up and took it round to see Rod Stewart and Billy Gaff, who's his [00:10:00] manager.

And Rod said, yo, if it can travel, that's exactly what I want. And I went and got the whole thing together and within a few months I was I was a stage designer. I remember going out to a dinner party and somebody said, what do you do? I said, I'm a stage designer, and I immediately got into a new world and that led to all sorts of things.

I remember getting a call from Harvey Goldsmith to say that with another guy, Paul Staples, he wanted us to go down and visit Paul McCartney's. House in the country. 'cause Paul, it was his first tour after the Beatles. He didn't really know what he was doing touring wise.

Of course, later on he was got to be very good at what he's doing. The great live acts of the world. But in those days, he didn't, he was just playing theaters and we went down with this stage design to do it. And you know what an amazing thing that to his house in deepest Kenton with horses grazing and him recording his new album in a rundown old barn.

And we walked in and he said it was for a cup of tea, everybody for a cup of [00:11:00] tea. And we all, it was very, he was very self-deprecating. And the end, he glanced up at this model that we'd bought of what the stage would look like. And he said he said, what's with all the zigzag bit? And it's a real Liverpool accent.

And my friend Paul said, he said, that's art. And he said, I know what art was is I went to Liverpool School of Art, which of course my generation, we all knew it, so hearing it from, yeah. So stuff happens when you, I think where we started is what you were asking me is what are those happenstances that make things happen?

And then I got into the TV business because a friend of mine I knew is actually, he was a big time, he did all the outdoor stages in Los Angeles for outdoor rock shows. And he had started buying. The rights to jazz shows and selling them to TV because TV didn't have around the world, 'cause TV doesn't have to dub music shows.

And I said, that's a good idea. He said could you help me? And I said I'm a loose end. I might have even said I'm at a loss as to [00:12:00] what to do next. So we went down to the Cannes, not the film festival, actually the television festival they have through a year. And I went out there and suddenly we'd met all these people from international TV stations and we had the rights to a Billy Joel show actually at a Billy Joel in Russia and Elton John in with a philharmonic orchestra in Sydney.

And we sold the rights to people. And suddenly I was into a new business. But you have to say yes, you have to put your hand up and say yes and be out of your death. And feeling a bit uncomfortable. So if you're feeling a bit uncomfortable, if any of your viewers are feeling a bit uncomfortable in doing something new, that is a good place to do.

That's what my, it's one of my things, but that's what what I think people do is they, once you get out of your comfort zone, we're trained inherently to as soon as something feels uncomfortable to quickly jump back into where it feels comfortable again. But actually what successful people do, whether it's a politician or whatever it is, like the pebble dropped into the water, the ripples go out and your comfort zone [00:13:00] gets bigger.

So being uncomfortable is very good place to be, sometimes reasonable period of time.

Arthur: And so on uncertainty is, can be pretty hardcore. How do you get through the moments where you're like, oh gosh, Christ, you've talked you've made reference to fear being on one end and then excitement being on the a, the other. How do you tame that dragon

Simon: it, that's a pretty fundamental question, isn't it? Because how do you deal with stress? How do you deal with stress? And I think everybody's got their own way. And yet exercise certainly helps. I'm into rock climbing and sailing and all sorts of extreme sports, so I'm gonna work out. So that's one way.

But I think you work out, I sometimes say that, on one shoulder, I'm highly serious about everything. It's gotta be great. And on the other side, I really don't give a damn because me and my ambitions are not important in the world. And yeah. How'd you how'd you deal with that sort of stress?

And I think, this is a bit deep, this one, this is [00:14:00] a bit deep. But one of the ones that I've got, I think you have these little things that you te you talk to yourself. You can educate yourself, you can educate that brain, that little voice at the back of your head that's going on and commentating on your life and saying it won't work and everything.

You can educate that. And I can't remember what I was saying. How do I educate myself? I remember, ask me another question and then I'll go back to

Arthur: you know what you are here is the, as well is the gut. I, it's, what's so clear about people's, you know what, whatever people build is so many people involved in building that and

Simon: in building what

Arthur: it, any project, any business,

Simon: Yeah.

Arthur: so many people end not being involved in making it happen.

Simon: Oh, I remembered what I was gonna say about the stressful thing is that when, at the time of your conception, your parents, I'm thinking about

You were the lucky one and do you know how many others were trying to get to [00:15:00] chance at life at that moment? It's 30 million and you were the lucky one that got a chance at life.

And sometimes I think that to myself and I think, I got a chance to live this life just simply to be alive for a period of time. And I found that very helpful for trying to live in the present. And the other thing is about stress is that the things that you were worried about last week or last month or last year, you can't even remember what they were.

They come and they go and they pass. So that was it. Anyway, we can move on to your next question though, because I.

Arthur: no, but it's an interesting, it's an interesting point. No, recently, I've just, I've come across a few people who talk about caring less. When they start to care

things actually happen much,

Simon: yeah.

Arthur: in a much more productive way for them. Are you quite good at, I'm not, you struck me as a, like a fun social bloke. How much having an ecosystem around you, let's call it friends or whatever you wanna call it has been part of you, doing well and being happy.

Simon: [00:16:00] I don't know. I'm quite gregarious and I like people and all of that, but somebody, actually, somebody who's known me for a long time said to me the other day, he said, actually, Simon, gregarious as you are, you were a lone shark, really, weren't you? And it really took me back because I think there is some truth in that.

I didn't have partners for the most part. I always thought that was more complicated and I plowed my own furrow. I. No, I think I, I prefer to do things on my own and to have an idea and to just go for it and then to change and certainly in the beginning of an enterprise, and I've had a few different enterprises, I've done even since, yo I've done a fashion business.

We've obviously, we've got the hotels, which is a much bigger business now than yo sushi. But at the beginning, in the first one or two or three years, or whatever it is for you, I think being a sort of benevolent dictator and saying, it's my way or the highway, and this is [00:17:00] exactly what we're doing, and driving you through.

I once had a nickname when I was in the television business. I later found out called the Steam Roller, which is, they used to call me that, which is, I'm, it's slightly embarrassing, but on the other hand, actually it's, sometimes it's what's needed. And so I think at the beginning of something you can do that, but then you have to hand over and let others do things their way, not your way.

And I was good at both those things. I was good at being a steamroller, and I was good at saying, actually, I've had enough. You can do this, Beth, than I can. Go on, get on with it. And that's what I did to yo sushi. Robin Rolands took yo sushi on. He always said it was three years. I always say it was four years in.

But anyway, he took it on and he really built it up. And then Richard Hodson has taken us over since him. And it allowed me to get on with the next thing, which was actually the beginning of the development of Yotel, which I did with another guy Jared Green. He came in as to, I say I didn't do things with other people.

He did come in and he got that, [00:18:00] I handed that over to him fairly early on. I did the first year and then I handed it over to him and said, okay, go for it. And in fact, I'm in Spain right now and he's got a new business out here in Spain called Off Grid that I've, i've I'm his partner in, because you know what doesn't kill you?

We didn't actually, we had a fallout at one point, but what doesn't kill you makes you stronger. And it's a trusting relationship. I'm down here enjoying it and he is about to open, it's called Off Grid and it's in Catalonia and it's a biking hotel. Bicycling hotel. It's Catalonia is the, Gerona is the center of bicycling of the world, I'm told.

Arthur: will you mayorca?

Simon: No, it's not. No, it's actually me or Cruise as well. But Gerona is in the, on the Spanish mainland, right at the top, near the border of the France. And that is a big biking area. Your biker.

Arthur: yeah, I am actually, yeah. Yeah.

Simon: I'm new to it, I'm new to it. I'm off on my electric bike, so I'm only a part-timer, but it is pretty amazing.

This [00:19:00] place is, he's done, it's just absolutely amazing off grid and you go out to the, I call it, I call biking the new skiing. And you go out of our little gates of the sort of mass, the ish thing we've got here. And we're straight onto the piece. And we've got a thousand meter mountain right next door, which I have got to the top of actually, which is pretty cool.

Arthur: In a time that you'd be willing to publicize

Simon: Say

Arthur: in a time that you're willing to publicize you're very proud of the ti the time or is it more

Simon: no it's opening in the next couple of months. It's opening sort of midsummer with some soft, opening it off grid. Gerona, I think it's called the, I think website's about to come out off grid Gerona. So if you're into biking, that is that's a pretty cool place to go to. It will be anyway.

I think good at doing it. Yeah.

say he was my partner in Yotel for the first four or five years. He opened New York and then he actually left one way or another, and it was soon after he left that we had our big makeup and became close friends again. So [00:20:00] it's nice to be doing something with him again.

Arthur: the do what's important to you when you are looking for, a business partner? Is it, on, on a simple level, you can find people who you get on really well with or have different skill sets. Is it more what does this all mean to

Simon: I wouldn't recommend to your viewers my own techniques because they're extremely unscientific and I'll take on partners. If I like somebody and I feel good about them, I, embarrassed to say I don't often, sometimes I don't even do very much research.

Arthur: Yeah.

Simon: I did, employing people, it's half a joke, but it, I think I did do it once, which was, I like lucky people.

And, you meet people who are just lucky. I call them Desert Island people. They're people who've just got such a good personality and they get lucky in everything they do usually because they're good with people. And I call them desert island people. If you're stuck in a desert island, who you'd want to be with anyway.

I like lucky people. So I used to shuffle up all the [00:21:00] cvs and then throw half of them in the waste basket. And that way you're left with the lucky ones. In many ways it's as scientific as no, I, I'm I take on people and I certainly take on partners and give them, three months, four months, six months, but I'm willing to cut bait, I'm willing to, I remember hearing this sounds quite shocking, but I remember meeting a guy in Bali actually who was a big zillionaire type and very nice guy. And he said, we were talking about this and he said, you know something Simon? He said, the thing I've learned in all my years is the time to fire somebody is usually the first time you think of it.

And it's the same with partners, if you're having your doubts, generally people don't change. I'm not saying just farm or do it just like that, generally people don't change it if something's not gonna work. And I think that's the same. I've got this thing about with my doctor.

I, I've told him I'm a hypochondriac. I want to get to all this stuff about, oh wait, leave Ular symptom and [00:22:00] then do something about it. Actually, I think in the future we won't cure diseases and the enormous cost of that, we'll prevent them. So I think it's the same with business is if you can reach deep into your pocket and imagine the future and imagine what's gonna go wrong and that it's a bit like just facing up to, to, to what the glitches are.

But earlier you face up to something, the more you can do something about it. There's always a solution. I think one of my little things is there's always a solution to everything. If you can face up to it and do something about it.

Arthur: Yeah. Yeah, I was talking to an entrepreneur who set up a another restaurant chain, and he was talking about how the importance of people knowing themselves. And, if you know yourself, then you can understand where what, where the opportunities are for you.

Do you resonate with that at all?

Simon: Knowing yourself. Yeah, it's a complicated thing.

Arthur: Yeah.

Simon: Sometimes I think behind if everybody's world is as complex as the [00:23:00] world that behind my face, what a very complicated world it must be out there. It's not surprising

Mine in its time. Mine's pretty relaxed and calm these days, but in its time, mine's been a pretty dangerous neighborhood.

So yes, of course I resonate with that. Yeah, sure. Know yourself. Know yourself. Find some peace. Yeah I think that's what I talk about really, because, if you're talking about business, you can talk about where to raise money, you can talk about how to do a spreadsheet, you can talk about how to do this research or that research, but actually most of it is about getting your own, getting yourself together to, to what you are talking about, getting to know your strengths and weaknesses and all of that stuff.

And mostly I can argue the opposite to pretty much anything that I say. So on the one hand, I could say spend, figure out what you're good at and spend 90% of your time doing what you're good at. And let other people [00:24:00] do what they're good at. That makes sense. But by the same token, when you're starting something, do everything yourself, the last thing you need is a bunch of consultants and all the cost of that.

And and on the one hand I could say take advice and listen very carefully to what everybody says, but on the other hand, I could easily argue, ignore everything that everybody else says. 'cause if they, if it was if it was a good idea they'd be doing it themselves. So you've gotta find your, you've gotta find your own modus operandi.

Arthur: yeah. Find, find out what works for

Simon: yeah,

Arthur: actually different things work for different

Simon: sure.

Arthur: and it's it's it's easy to oversimplify.

Simon: Yeah. It's, I, they're all talking shots. It's fun to talk to you about this stuff and anybody watching and listening to me they're not gonna do what I said and they shouldn't do. I recommend that you don't do what I say, but I. You can take little bits from people and I think as you're listening to somebody like me or like you or whatever, you just take little bits to think, okay, I could use that.

I'm [00:25:00] gonna steal that. Certainly public speaking, I think, and I've done a lot of that, and TV and all of that is that what you do is you get to the person's manner and style and you, and that rubs off onto you. And you might remember two or three things that they said, but mostly it's this, it's the aura if you like, that you give out.

So develop your own aura.

Arthur: Yeah. Interesting. People, there's so much the word exponentially changing

Simon: sure.

Arthur: quickly the minute. Yeah.

Simon: Live as long as I possibly can for the sole reason that I want to see it all, what's gonna happen, because that exponential curve, man, it is such an exciting time to live. I thought that I was lucky growing up in the sixties and the music and all of that, and it was much easier to get into things and get started.

But now what opportunities?

Arthur: and what do you do to stay involved in what's happening? In a minute.

Simon: I try not to get [00:26:00] involved in too many things, but that's difficult for me, because I like ideas and I like seeing them happen, but I've learned to say no. I've learned to say no. I have a pretty nice life now. I, I live, I've got a home in Thailand. I've got a home here in Spain.

Come to the UK a bit. And and I've got enough things that interest me, doing things like this, trying to help other people. Trying, I've written an autobiography, which is a out end of next year. I've been building up to that, getting back in the public eye a little bit, hence I'm sitting talking to you.

And I've still got an interest in both Ya, sushi and Yoel. There's planning and then there's yeah, there's my daughter and my wife to be getting married next month to Target. Yeah. So yeah there's enough going, there's enough going. I'll tell you what I, for me, this stage of my life.

It's this is a mountaineering thing. There's, an ette on a mountain, which is a, very sharp bit like this. And if you're walking along the ette, you could fall down on either [00:27:00] side. And on the, for me, my, in my imagination on one side is stress and the other side is boredom. So trying to walk that tightrope between not taking on too much stress and not getting bored is, that's the game for me is trying to stay involved with everything.

And one way of doing it is to, talk to people like you and people, other people who are doing interesting things and help out. And occasionally I will get involved in something financially or advice wise or whatever, but I love to hear what people are doing and to give some input and to, and people do say sometimes people say That's really helpful.

Arthur: and looking back you are clearly very creative in what parts of building the businesses that you built have you enjoyed?

Simon: Robin Roland, who ran the Oshi for many years is what I call an operator and I'm an entrepreneur, so Robin would always be looking at the margins and the people [00:28:00] stuff and analysis and market research and all of that. And I would only ever look at one thing, which is the top line.

How do you get masses and masses of people to buy your product? 'cause all the rest for me, and I'm right actually, if you've got whatever you are doing, you want to get to a. You want to be overwhelmed with the number of people who want your product and service, and you do that not by great marketing.

You do that. This is a metaphor to some extent, but spending all the money that you can get hold of on doing something better and better and better. 'cause if you do something really better and really different and all of that stuff, it will always win. It will always shine through.

You've gotta hold the flag up above the parapet and wave it and say, look at us. We're here. Okay. You can call that marketing if you like, but just spending all the time. Sainsbury's say they liked to or waitress, I think it is. They like to delight their customers, but in my sixties vernacular, I want to blow my customer's mind.

I want the magic words for me [00:29:00] are. I had this the hotels were, they're a very good example. AMJ, if I said, if I'd said in market research, would you like to eat raw fish off conveyor belts with robots serving the drinks, you're not gonna say yes. By the same token, if you if when we start open the hotels, I'd say if you, would you like to sleep in a seven square meter room with no natural life?

'cause the windows in the early hotels looked out onto the corridor, nobody's gonna say yes. But when they walked into those hotels, people said, this is amazing, because it was such detail, it was like some inside of an airplane, or private yacht or something like that. People said, the magic words are, this is so obvious.

Why hasn't somebody done this before? And that's what I'm after.

Arthur: And getting things done, it's difficult to understand how points on a project should one be for, to get caught up in the, in the granular. Do you have a view on how something that served you in terms of knowing when to move on in a project or accept things that, for startups, for many [00:30:00] tech startups, you're told, and at least in Silicon Valley, is to not produce the perfect product.

Just get it out there and get as feedback

Simon: Yeah, it's messy. I totally believe that. I, the number of people I hear, I say have you, they talk about raising money. I go, I said, have you met an investor? No. We're waiting till our business plan is perfect. We've got the package, we've got the, when our deck is ready, we'll do, and I go, something.

A deck or a business plan for me anyway, is something that you leave afterwards for people to have a read of and be reminded of what you are talking about. But, and you can back up what you're talking about with some pictures and some images, but really if I think, I had this on Dragons Den what you're investing in is the person and you've got to be able to talk, like I'm talking now, full of energy and passion and everything and knowledge and not be defensive.

And when somebody says, what about this is a good point. I haven't solved that. Or whatever it is, there's some honesty to it. So yeah, I think get out and be messy and make lots of mistakes and [00:31:00] go off and see investors or whatever it is that you need or estate agents or developers or whatever it is that you're doing.

And it doesn't have to be perfect. But on the other hand check and double check and triple check, but it's as bloody good as you can possibly make it.

Arthur: Yeah. There's certain, one certainly needs this sort of obsession this sort of huge caring in, in, in I, the end outcome. How do today you are, you are clearly a super curious individual. How do you look for new opportunities?

Simon: Ob you say that's an interesting word because, I think, yeah, I think one of the most appealing things to me about people is enthusiasm and and obsession, I suppose is a close relation of enthusiasm. So I'm always looking for people who've got that sort of energy and obviously who've, who are gonna put themselves on the line as well, so that I as an investors are gonna be hurt less than they would be if something goes wrong.

But how [00:32:00] do I, what, how do I look? I just keep my eyes open, where do ideas come from? I think for me, I'm constantly looking at every, whatever I go or do. And I don't even, I don't even put it into words, but I'm always looking at how things could be better and how I do something if I did this and, whether that's design or operation or the manner or, a website that I used.

I think what has the guy even been on his own website? You know those ones that drive you around the band or his own app?

Arthur: yeah.

Simon: And yeah, sessions. Session's pretty good, but you can't do, I think in the beginning of something, you do 16, 18 hour days and I find myself jumping out of bed just because I'm, that's what I want to do more than anything else.

Talk about, you say work life balance. It is fun if you can get it in the right place. It's just fun doing all of that stuff. But I don't think you can do it just to, just for the desire to make money. Money is bloody great stuff. It's, and I'm certainly no shame about saying [00:33:00] that It's amazing money.

'cause it, when you have a hit and there's money rolling in, it oils the wheels of life. And if you have an idea, you can actually make it happen and do it.

Arthur: Are there any PE people talk about the UK and and the UK's economic situation in very varying degrees. I'm a big believer in the optimist tend to win generally. Do you have any views

Simon: on the UK and the state uk

Arthur: let's say, yeah. You've got experience in a lot of experience in ho hospitality ho hospitality businesses have certain challenges now.

If you look, you think about bars a lot of people don't drink anymore. There's a lot of cost pressures. Do you think the UK needs a certain business at the minute? And,

Simon: Yeah, I think it is. I think we're in a bit of a mess in the uk. Yeah. And I think it will take a long time to change it. I actually think that our culture is pretty negative. There's a lot of. Of angry people around, a lot of difficult people. And I think [00:34:00] actually that education is probably, education is gonna change so radically because we're gonna have such instant access to information that you don't really need.

And also that learning in schools will be self-learning, will teach, kids will learn, teachers will no longer have to prepare lessons. The online learning will be so good. It'll be as creative as the very best miniseries. And if you can imagine that for every single lesson, you're gonna be totally motivated as a kid if you can get it.

So the thing that you've really gotta do is to teach the whole person. And I think when, what they're calling eq now, emotional intelligence are solving the problems that kids have growing up and the things that stop them or make them rebellious or whatever. If you can make that every bit as important as reading, writing, and arithmetic, which are the ones that you have to basically learn, then in 10 or [00:35:00] 20 years we will start to turn out better and better adjusted people.

And I think that I think that the inequality of wealth in the world, especially as AI is gonna decimate the middle class, the working classes got hit, probably the working class. If you're a plumber or electrician, you're probably in a very good place right now. But I think the middle class is gonna get decimated and I think to share out, to find a way to share out the wealth that.

All this innovation and AI and the rest of it creates so that you have a stable society is desirable for rich people as well as for the people who are suffering. And I think there's a great deal of suffering going on in the UK financially up against it. So I think that will happen. I think the system of government that we have, was invented, hundreds of years ago and it's not what they call fit for purpose now.

I really don't do think that is the case. I look at sort of Switzerland, which where the people [00:36:00] to some extent vote for what they want and there's a small executive that implements that. And I think that's where we would actually, I think actually that we'll have, the income tax will give way to a wealth tax, which is means testing really, which AI will be able to do much better than it's ever been done before.

And that ultimately, I don't know how many tens of years it'll be that we will pay for services like health, like education, even roads. We'll pay a court rather like council taxes divided into different layers. We'll pay by our wealth and that will create a more equal society, not least of which, 'cause you'll only pay for health, but you actually choose to take.

So those are some of my ideas. I think that we'll have a norm and also. The way parliament works, the argumentative, madness. People look back in 50 years and say, how could they run businesses where they just spent their time? Strong missiles at each other.

[00:37:00] What you need an executive to implement ideas. We've had 'em since Eve first met Adam, but take it from me. Execution's the key and that's what government should be doing. So I think that'll change. And do you know what I think will be the moment is when we have digital voting? 'cause digital voting must come at some point in, wouldn't you say,

Arthur: Yeah, it's

Simon: Scott?

Arthur: strange that even in a very, another example is IDs to getting into, bars or nightclubs? How is it that we still rely on a

Simon: Yeah. What do you think digital voting? Once we have digital voting, it will suddenly become obvious that we don't need to do it just once every four years and vote a political party in. We can give, we, the people can give our opinions on what we want in the country that we live in our democracy, on issues, not on people.

And not every four years, on a day-to-day basis if we so wish, if you hang around [00:38:00]government, the things they're always saying, what are the people thinking? What do they want? So I think all of that could happen. And then we might get good people in government in that executive. We might get good people.

But right now, why would people say you should go into politics Summit? Like why would I go, oh, go and get my head kicked in every day. You know why? So you're never gonna get any good people in there.

Arthur: It's if you look at the way the world works it, there are such. I remember I did a semester in at Stanford and there was, everyone was very encouraged to work on projects that contribute to, humanity. You talked about your business is only succeeding from creating value to pe to people. I learned a lot the other week that in Moscow you can pay with your face in, in, in a cafe, in a restaurant, paint by face. And I think where I'm going with that or albeit quite sounding quite abstract to this point, is, on one hand you've got places in the world where you can paint by face and then places world where there's no clean mortar. How do you see us getting [00:39:00] better, overcoming, such a sort of uneven world in that sense? Not necessarily just about, quality of living, but just how we end up allocating resources and time, so in such an inefficient manner according to where they should be,

Simon: You know something, if we did nothing, if none of us talked about it and we did nothing, it's still change. It's already happening. There must be a, I would say, I mean you can call me a dreamer, but I'm not the only one. But there must be some equalization of wealth. People look back in a hundred years and say, how could you know, a bit like we look back at people going down the mic, how could there be such enormous in inequality of wealth?

And I think some of those ideas that I've been talking about will just will come and will happen because that way you have a stable world. Because what's actually happened in my lifetime is that, the world has become transparent. You can see how rich, very rich people live, and you can see how [00:40:00] very poor people live.

Although I don't think most people, I've actually been poor in my time. And in my early days I really had, I ran out of money before the end of the week, so I do know, and I hung out with, the roaders and the, and all of that. So I know what it's like to be, I know what poverty's and I, at least I've got a taste of it.

And I think unless you've actually had that, you can't even imagine how difficult that is, to the despair and all of that. So I think, yeah.

Arthur: Yeah it's I was just gonna say that often those that end up contributing to. Those challenges have been through a similar experience themselves. I've got a friend who did AA for example, and he's just got an incredible attitude and sense of empathy in terms of helping others. But to your point, with philanthropy for example though, just having that exposure. So it, do you, is that gonna [00:41:00] be a big piece for you,

Simon: i'd pay more tax. I'd pay more tax, but it makes it an awful lot easier if if somebody tells me I have to.

Arthur: Yeah. Yeah. And final question before we move on to the quickfire around questions. Which is, if there, there's many parts of life, and you're getting married next month. That's phenomenally exciting. What do you want more from your day, your week?

At the minute? Maybe it's a feeling, maybe it's learning about something. But it but perhaps you can think of

Simon: somebody asked me the other day what's left on your bucket list? And I could honestly answer though, I haven't got a bucket list. I've done everything I want and I'm happy to live every day as it is. But I am if you're being serious about it, I'm 73 and I know you're gonna say no, you don't look it and all that.

That's probably one of the reasons I said it. But I think it was 55. For your older viewers or for the younger ones looking ahead. 55 was the year was the age that I realized for the [00:42:00] first time that life doesn't go on forever. So that was a call to action, caveat M tour, not career thought, what's the other Latin word, live for the day.

And that was really good for me. Live, try and live in the day and try and make every moment count and have some fun. I'd learn to be a bit peaceful, but I'd say that it sounds a bit heavy, but in some ways I'm preparing for, I'm gonna go at some point and I want to be, I want to do my own demise as well as I've got this far in my life.

So I want to die. One, I want to be comfortable. To say, and not be terrified of that. So that's something I think about a bit.

Arthur: There, there definitely there, there's definitely a few people I can think of who have had a very nerve wracking situation, which is com changed their mentality on that exact topic.

Simon: yeah,

Arthur: and that the extent of their gratefulness and that, the amount that they're present is, there, there is [00:43:00] quite an obvious switch.

Simon: what you probably don't know, and what I think a lot of the younger viewers don't know is that in the sixties and seventies we didn't talk about anything like this. That has been a radical change in the last 50 years. That, and, love 'em or hate them, big Brother and the, Alan Sugar and all of them, what it has done is it's changed people to be able to talk and also the conversations about mental, what we now call mental health, I mean it's perhaps it's gone over the top, it's just a little bit depressed, but it's, it, the fact that it's all, it's in the open.

You started this out by saying you are very open and honest, Simon, but I don't think it's just me. I think there's I think as a society we're more and more open act. I've learned as I've got older I spent quite a bit of my time wearing my, my thoughts and my feelings on my sleeve, and reacting that way.

And actually, as I've got older, you probably don't think it's sitting, seeing me talking like this here, but I keep [00:44:00] more to myself. I try and say a little bit less and listen a bit more. So maybe

Arthur: not easy to do.

Simon: there.

Arthur: speaking of listening, you made the most amazing quote, which I actually, I'm gonna repeat the two quotes that I've got here. So the first is to be a great blue singer, you have to have tougher the blues. And then you go on to say one of the great things of life is that it's difficult and that when you realize that's just normal, you stop complaining and make the best of it and put one step in front of another. I may, there's something there about setting expectations

Simon: yeah.

Arthur: hey, let's be realistic.

Simon: Life is difficult even for successful people. You sometimes you meet people who've just got a silver spoon and they seem to have swung through life, but I don't think that they have the depth of feeling that somebody like that blue singer. That I was talking about, to have been through the ups and downs of life gives you a much deeper, more compassionate, more understanding of life.

I think it'd be harder to die actually if you'd had a silver spoon in your mouth [00:45:00] all the time. And actually I come across a lot of rich people. Money doesn't make well, does money make you happy? Definitely. The relief from the fear of not having money makes you happy, that's for sure. But it, you don't even want to hear this, but it can cause other problems as well, the fear of losing it all that sort of stuff.

Yeah. Yeah.

Arthur: And so we are gonna move on to the quickfire

Simon: Okay. Far away.

Arthur: and forgive me that some might touch on,

Simon: Yeah. Try me.

Arthur: three things that give you joy,

Simon: exercise. Sunny Days and lovely people.

Arthur: a mantra you would want to embrace would be

Simon: fuck it. As in I call it the fuck IT syndrome, as in, oh, it's to hell with it. Let's just get on and do it.

Arthur: One unusual thing that gives you pleasure

Simon: one unusual thing that gives me pleasure I dunno. I don't know the answer [00:46:00] to that question. What? I'm just, let's try, actually actually I'm into extreme sports and climbing and the actual being in a fearful position on a climb on a mountain, whether that's just for a few seconds or a few minutes, a few hours or days.

The pleasure when it finishes is fantastic.

Arthur: I'll be frank. I really don't wanna think about that. It's it's stirring the nerves.

Simon: Yeah.

Arthur: but,

Simon: So it's like watching a, what's the movie about? That a free solo and you know that the guy survives, but you still can't watch it.

Arthur: The three, the three wonderful points you make, which your three rules, you wanna repeat the myth

Simon: My, my three rules for life. Don't try and change anybody ever. Everything always works out. Always. And the first one is, I can't remember the first one. What is my first, what's the first Remind me? [00:47:00] Gone out in my head. Yeah,

Arthur: things pers don't

Simon: don't take, yeah, don't take That is the big one. That is the big one. Don't take anything personally, ever.

And I really, even though I forgot it, then I really do try and do that. Whenever anybody says the best response to somebody having a go at you, you know the best response is to lean forward and say, tell me more. Don't try and change anybody ever. 'cause people don't change. And everything always works out, always because as I think I said earlier what you are worrying about last week or last month you can't even remember what it is most times.

Arthur: Yeah. Simon I'm so grateful for your time and it's yeah. I feel it's nice that. you've gone on your journey and you spend time giving back because it's, it's clear, you're clearly very compassionate and and you want, you like being real with people. And that, that has a lot of that means that means a [00:48:00] lot in today's world.

Simon: Yeah. And I like being successful too.

Arthur: Yeah.

Simon: Like succeeding, but I don't mind failing it. Yeah. Yeah. Bit of all of that. Thank you, Arthur.