Speak to Lead: The Power of Communication with Public Speaking Expert Javier Bernad

Arthur: . [00:00:00] Javier, it's such a pleasure to have you on the Kollective Institute Ideas podcast.

You teach an amazing class on public speaking at IU Business School, what really struck me is just how multidimensional communication is and how the way you read into communication from presenting to writing. So I thought what a great thing for people to learn about and who better to hear about communication from?

You are clearly fascinated by the world of communication. Why is that?

Javier: First I, I've always done this. I've been managing companies in Spain and I've worked in marketing departments of LAR large FMCG companies, and I came to realize that the number one thing. Is how you communicate. My, my first stint was at Proctor and Gamble. In Proctor Gamble. They make a novelist out of you because everything needs to be in written form.

Everything is one page, one page memos, of course. And you get used to, hey, this is not only necessary, it's normal [00:01:00] and it should be there, and we should know how to communicate very well. And then I did my PhD in communication and there I found out that the number one ability in charismatic leaders is public speaking, communicating in general.

But above all, being able to stand up in front of an audience and persuade them. If you don't know how to communicate, you're not going anywhere. You may be a fantastic motivator, a great negotiator you may have the best vision for a team. Okay, thank you very much. You don't know how to communicate that you're going nowhere and then.

Communication is so easy to do, but then that's the problem with communication, which is everyone can do it because everyone can open their mouth and start to say something, but it can be so much better. So my, my purpose, my, what drives me is to make great communicators out of normal communicators, which is, I [00:02:00] think what we do at IE business school every day at this, what I do in my courses.

Arthur: there something surprising about your journey that we, that people often don't know about?

Javier: I enjoy doing it. I enjoy training it, but that's the bit which I think, it makes me a little bit different, which is I'm a scuba diving instructor, so I took up instructing in scuba diving, so I did all the courses.

I actually went to Australia to, to do my, my instructor course many years ago. And then what I found out when I set up my own diving school with a friend, what I found out is what I really enjoy is not the diving itself. He's teaching people how to do it because you get someone who's not very good at this way.

He's a good swimmer. That's it. And then her boyfriend says, Hey, you should take up diving because I like it. And now we're getting married, so you, we should do things together. And then someone who's swimming, okay, [00:03:00] after two weeks of training she's diving like a fish. So the feeling of, I just did this for this person with this person, and she's a different human being now.

So you take someone and then you transform that someone, it's a, it's such a reward, rewarding sensation. So I like public speaking, I like training, public speaking. And above all, I like the change I see in you when you finish your training, which is what happened with you, Arthur and your maids because you were also very good after we practiced so much.

Arthur: There's so much that forms communication. What do you think are the main areas in which people get communication wrong?

Javier: The most important thing is that they open their mouths and they think, okay, I just expressed this, so I'm fine. I sit down, they clap. Great. It's probably been a disaster because you don't have the template to with which to organize your speech. So I think people get it wrong in, in [00:04:00] that it's just run of the mill communication, which should be so much better.

Not only it could be better, it should be better because as I said, it's the number one ability in great leaders. Any leader you can think of, any person you admire in, in leading teams. She's a great speaker, always. From famous horrendous dictators to persons like Gandhi. Gandhi was low key in his communication, but he was full of passion.

I get goosebumps when I think of his speeches. So the number one thing people get wrong is that they just screws through their speech and it will be fine. It's not fine. It can always be so much better, and it's so easy to change through training. The most important thing in public speaking is you need to do it over and over again.

So you should find opportunities to speak. And we don't speak in general. Most people won't face an audience of 13 individuals five times a week, which is what we do as professors. So if you want to improve your public speaking, become a professor because you're speaking every day, all [00:05:00]day.

Arthur: And people have all sorts of charact characteristic traits. Some are more competent than others. What are the levers? You can think of some basic levers that people can use to improve their communication, be it nonverbal or verbal.

Javier: The number one thing is recognizing what you do well, and this is why I don't let students evaluate them themselves. Evaluate other students. So you know, it's peer evaluation that's going to be horrible because that person is not an expert. And then the first thing she'll say to you is, you will, no, you are not very natural.

You come across as you are faking it, and also your hands are not moving very well. And then you destroy that individual because he thinks, okay, I'm not good enough for this. So it's essential to find out what you do well. Mainly in your nonverbal expression, and then what you can fine tune in the components of your express expression.

So you come across as what they need you to come across. Audiences need two things from you. They want you [00:06:00] to be an authority, so to show power, and they want you to show enthusiasm so you're passionate about your topic. So number one is finding out what do I do well, because that will allow you to reform, to amend what you are not doing that very well.

And it's mainly your exclusivity. So the way you come across now, you cannot change yourself. This is essential. So this is why I always say to people, don't watch videos on YouTube. Don't do that because you're trying to be like Obama. You're trying to be like Cinta Arden in New Zealand. What's the problem?

You're not the guy, you're not that lady. So you'll never be able to speak like that guy. Not because you're worse or better, but because you're not the guy. So don't watch videos on YouTube. It's bad for you. Just get the, A coach can then get an expert who can tell you what you're doing well, what you can change.

That's what relates to your nonverbal expression. And then [00:07:00] the easiest thing to change is nonverbal. Although it makes seem the opposite. What do you mean? I want to speak like Obama? I'm not the, I can't be as expressive. Yes you can. But the most complicated thing is crafting a speech which is memorable, persuasive.

And interesting. And there a few things you can change in that speech to, to make it

Arthur: the most brilliant conversationalists that you've come across what do you, what are some of the things that they do that you think, wow, that's, that is genius.

I, I want to adopt that.

Javier: This is an interesting aspect of learning how to express yourself in front of an audience, because what you learn to do applies to one-on-one conversations. So for instance, if you remember, I always say don't let your hands touch unless it is to express something, because they're transmitting defensiveness, you're protecting your vital organs.

This would be the extremes of folding your arms. [00:08:00] So when you learn what you transmit with the, with what you do, with your number components of your number expression, then you can apply that in conversations with other people, not only on a stage, but in normal conversations, day-to-day conversations.

And then because you know what you're transmitting, which is power and maybe passion about what you're talking, then you feel safer. So it's a virtuous. Loop because I may feel more or less safe or assured with that particular individual I'm talking to. But because I know what I'm transmitting, I know what that person is perceiving about me, then I'm gonna feel safer.

Arthur: And there's something about listening. Sometimes it, it can be difficult, people find it difficult to listen when you know when they're, when they hear others talk. Do you think that's a big component of communication?

Javier: Yes, of [00:09:00] course. The best conversationalist is the one who tells you about yourself. So listening is a key component in, in, in communication. Of course, it's not that big of a component in public speaking because you're the ones speaking, they're the ones listening, except when it comes to the q and a.

One interesting thing, if you are facing a question from an audience is shut up before you answer. Shut up. Think and then say something. So if it's a nice question you shut up for a couple of seconds. What you're saying to that person is, look, I care about you so much that I'm taking the time to come up with the best answer for you.

This is special for you. And then if it's a nasty question, four to five seconds, what you're saying is, first you, I'm in charge. And then you're looking for the best answer, which is always better than the first that comes to mind. So most people are not great listeners. The reason for that is, is what we're [00:10:00]dying to express our views.

Then we disregard a large part of what's being said as irrelevant, and then we're thinking about what to say. So we are not great listeners. The other thing we do, which makes us not such fantastic listeners is we. We want to add parallels. So you say to me, Javi, let me tell you about my trip to India.

Man, it was fantastic. I loved it. And then I stop you and I say, oh, did you like the north? I've been there a few times and I like this and that, and the food. And you go, excuse me. Shut up. I am the one telling you about my trip to India. So that's adding parallel is we try to relate to what the person is saying, but it's wrong because what you're doing is you're interrupting and you're lessening the value of what that person is expressing.

So yes, we, which shut up. Listen and then say something. And ideally that something starts by very briefly summarizing what [00:11:00] that person said, of referring to that person's feelings, which were in whatever she said. Listening is we're not great listeners as I said. And we should be, because it's a key component in conversations, of course.

Arthur: That's really interesting. 'Cause what you talked a bit about, connecting with people. And often when I think about public speaking communication in general, part of that is what the speakers thinking about. And then the other part is about I. What, what the other person is going through.

How much do you think about what the other person in the audience is going through? And what are the things you think about when you are advising people, to communicate? Are you thinking about, what are people gonna be interested in? What does that look like for you?

Javier: There's two different things. If it's a one-on-one,

Arthur: Yeah.

Javier: what you are, what you should be thinking of is that person's point of view. Before you. [00:12:00] Introduce your view of the situation. So especially in difficult conversations there's always two parts to, to a difficult conversation, which is how you say things, how the other person sees things.

So you should start by referring to what that person said. So what's her view of the problem, if it's a problem. And then you relate your own view of the situation. The other thing we do, which is not correct, is if there's someone to blame, of course, it's never you, it's the other person to blame. So what's going to happen is it's going to become defensive and then you'll solve nothing.

So instead of blaming, what you should think of is, what did I contribute to this? What do I think the other person contributed to this situation? So again, it's listening and it's thinking in a broad, broader way. So it's not all only what I think, it's what the other person thinks. .

Arthur: Often it can, it can take a lot of deliberate effort to to [00:13:00] take yourself out of a situation and think about. What the person wants in a situation or the context into account. So for example, sometimes you go to, an event and you'll hear this huge speech and you are just saying, gosh this person sounds very deluded.

The fact that, it's such a long speech, they've completely lost the audience. They haven't taken into account. There's been loads of other speeches. What do you advise people in terms of taking into account the situation that they're going into and the energy or and, influencing people based on the moment that they're involved in?

Javier: There's two things. It used to be just one, now it's two. Number one is how much they know about the topic. We tend to assume that they know more than they do, and then we lose them with fancy terms and acronyms and technic systems.

So adapt to the level of knowledge. And then number two is culture. It used to be, don't discuss anything related to politics nor religion. And [00:14:00] maybe football also. Now it's those two plus gender sexual preference race, whether you're fat or not, whether you're old or not, et cetera. So the wokeness aspect of speaking, and it has become a huge problem because people can annoyed very easily, so handle with care.

And my advice is if in doubt, don't say it, don't say it. We may discuss whether this is good or bad for humanity, but don't say it. Because you're gonna run into problems with that audience. You can antagonize half the audience and it's never good. It'ss not good. So those are the two main things.

There's others, like how many people are there in the room? What's the day of the week time of the day? Is the boss there? Because he's going to always ask the question for which you have no answer to show that he knows more than you do. Or the boss of your boss, normally not your boss, maybe.

What did they do before? What are they going to do after [00:15:00] your talk? What do they think about you? Do they, do you need to establish your credentials? At the start? Is someone introducing you? Which is ideal by the way, if someone can introduce you instead of yourself. So much better, especially if that person is in a position of authority, because part of that authority distill onto you through that introduction.

So yes, you should always analyze the audience before you start. And if you don't know much about them, then ask them. So sometimes I do, I send an email to persons attending that, that conference a few of them. And I ask them what their objectives are, what they want to find out, how much they know about the topic.

And then not only do I use that to prepare my speech, I also mention it along my speech. So I've talked to a few of you and you said this and that, and they go, oh, great. He's prepared for this so he cares about us. One of the three aspects of ethos, ethos, pathos, logos, Aristotle the [00:16:00] artistic means of persuasion as he called those three, one of the components of ethos, which is how they perceive you, is caring about the audience.

So you should show that you care for them. It's like you're special to me and this is a very easy way of doing precisely that.

Arthur: Persuasion, the art of persuasion. It's sometimes it can be difficult to pinpoint why certain people are so persuasive, I'm sure you can think of those that, you are completely enamored by, in terms of their ability to persuade people.

Are there things that people don't often think about in terms of one's ability to persuade people?

Javier: Some people are completely predisposed to stand up in front of an audience and just not only dominate them, they entertain them. They're charismatic, which is a very funny, very ample word, but charisma is like magnetism.

So you're attracted to that individual. You don't know why, but you would follow that person to the end of the world. So some people are, have it easier. [00:17:00] Me for instance they're bigger. They have a deeper voice. They're bulkier. Their manners are very, they seem very self-assured. Surefooted in school.

They were they the representative of the class for whatever. So they've had it easier in life. Some others are not as expansive. They think things through before opening their mouth more. They're introverts. I'm an introvert. I like being an introvert. I like being on my own.

I, whenever I go to a party with my wife, we take two cars because at midnight I'm bored, so I go back home and she stays until three, 4:00 AM but it's good to be an introvert. I enjoy being an introvert, but I, some introverts hate in standing in front of an audience because it's, they don't like to be exposed.

So what do you do to fix that? You need training. And this is so easy. Public speaking is just doing it again and again. The more you do it, the better you become at this. [00:18:00] So it's two things. First, you need to find opportunities to speak, and they need to, you need to rehearse, whatever you're gonna say.

The more you rehearse, the more naturally you will sound, which seems like a contradiction, but that's the way it works. This is like actors. How do you think an actress seems so natural on a stage at the theater? Because if you're shooting a movie, you can redo the scene again and again, but at the theater, they just, it seems like it's happening there.

And then why? Because they've rehearsed a million times. So it goes against the, against common sense. Maybe it is excuse me. Do you mean the more you do it, the more naturally you sound? It's the opposite. It's the faker you will come across. No. The more you rehearse, the better you will, the more natural you'll see.

Arthur: a and culture's quite an appropriate component of there. British people often don't communicate what they want.

And the Brits, we. We dance around the truth for politeness. And I think that this is [00:19:00] an example of the nuance of of communication. When you look at people on how they communicate and what they talk about, do you have any beliefs about what people don't do in communication that they should do?

Javier: Maybe the Brits should be more straight. I shared a flat for three years with a guy from London, my friend Faruk. And it was, had a great relationship. We still have communication was very direct. But I asked him for his advice in communicating with my boss because my boss was from the UK also, and I was always too direct.

He, for example, excuse me, you, you cannot say that to your boss. You need to go around and around, and then after a little while, that's when you pinpoint things. So it's this big difference in, in communicating. It varies so much across cultures. The farther north you go in Europe, the farther east you go worldwide, [00:20:00] the less expansive people tend to be with their nonverbal expression.

And then the more nuanced, there are communication also. So in that sense, for instance, the Japanese are very much like the bridge as you say. So that this is not direct to the point, like the, they may do it in the US or. Or like we do to an extent in Spain. So recognizing your own communication style goes a long way towards adapting to, to other communication styles.

Whenever I go to Saudi Arabia, I. Which, which is a place I'm visiting very often, or because the place is booming. It's a very high context culture in the sense that you cannot be direct.

You have to go all, all around to get to the point when you meet someone from Saudi to do business with the first meeting, you don't dare discuss business. So you talk about the weather and about politics and about how things are going in general in the world and then you can. [00:21:00] Discuss maybe in your next meeting or third meeting, then you can get out to business.

So know what your culture, how your culture you grew up in influences your style of communicating. There's not a lot you can do about that because if you try to think change things in yourself, then we have a problem. Like I was saying at the start, you are yourself in communicating you, you cannot change your personality, but you need to adapt to the audience as much as you can.

Arthur: The benefits of, good communication, couldn't be more clear. Where it be in business romance politics. Do you take a view that things are missing in how people generally talk to communicate? Perhaps it's how honest people are.

So an interesting comment an entrepreneur made on a previous episode was how. He in early on in his journey, he he didn't realize how much it would pay to, to be vulnerable with people and actually [00:22:00] being vulnerable with people has paid off in huge dividends in the sense that people can connect much better when people are being real with each other.

Do you have any comment on that?

Javier: Will, you always need to adapt to the audience. Remember, and even if the audience is just you, another person you are having conversation with, I can think of a few examples where if I am showing my vulnerability, I'm gonna lose. Big in whatever exchange we're having. So sometimes you can't, it's all very fine and ddy and dandelions and save the planet but sometimes you cannot do that.

You need to still be yourself. You're not faking anything, but you're not open up opening up to the other person as much because if you do, she's going to crush you. So depending on the level of authority, depending on the business you're in, depending on your relationship with that person then you need to watch out.

I just an example I was [00:23:00] training A-A-C-E-O the just a couple of weeks ago and he was very stiff. I'm very down to, excuse me, give me the steak. You can keep the broccoli. I don't care. So if I am opening up, I'm being nice and emotional, I'm, he's going to despise me very likely.

Now, that person was not a bully. Police, a different case but she was, she's in charge of millions and millions of euros in business. So of course she had to. Yes. But again, adapt to the audience. Always adapt to the audience, always yourself, but adapt to the audience.

Arthur: That's interesting. There are times I can think of in, in business or maybe it's a social setting when one needs to change the power balance of what's happening and take a step back and and perhaps you've trained business leaders just on that topic where they're being confronted over issues and, they really need to change what, what's [00:24:00] happening and persuade people.

Who are very much on the offense against them and completely change that power balance. How do you guide people in those difficult, confrontational scenarios?

Javier: I have so much fun training people in how to confront these situations because I role play, so I'm like the really nasty person when I train how to answer, train, how to answer questions, horrible questions. So what do you do is first, if you ask me a nasty question. You, for instance, you say, Javier, I completely disagree with you.

You're so wrong. My experience with this was completely opposite to what you just said. So I don't know who invited you to speak here, but I think I just wasted a lot of my time. So what I do access first is, the thing I do is this. So I shut up for five seconds while I hold that person's eye con eye contact, [00:25:00] and I don't smile. I don't retreat. I just hold my ground. Then the first thing coming out of your lips if someone disagrees radically with you, is I like you. So for instance, you say, I completely understand what you're saying.

Or knowing your background is very common to hold that view or, yes, I've heard that before. I understand what you're saying. Or you can even say, of course, you have all the right in the world to disagree with me. So first you say, I like you, because the first thing you wanna say is you. You're not gonna make me look stupid in front of everyone, so I'm gonna get you now.

So instead of that, shut up eye contact, five seconds, and then I like you. And then the next thing you do is you offer facts. No opinions, facts, which you may have already given that person or that audience. You give them those facts again. Now, after that, she may shut up or she keeps trying to hit you, [00:26:00] which is what normally happens.

So if she keeps going, then you have several ways. At first you can use the audience. For instance, you say I don't know. What do the rest of you think? If you are nice to that person? And the first thing you said is, I understand you normally they sign up with you. If they don't, then you have another problem.

The other thing you may do is you use the time card. So you say, look I, after like the third exchange, you say, look I'm enjoying this conversation very much, but I would like to give you as a chance to participate also, because unfortunately we don't have a lot of time. So if you don't mind, why don't you, why don't you and I take you up this after a meeting because I really wanna go into depth about this with you.

And then the other thing you can do is you can, instead of saying, yes, no, black, white, I disagree with you, you go above and you say, look, I think the reason you are having this view [00:27:00] is way more relevant than any answer I could give you today. So could you please elaborate on how you came to think this way?

So what I'm doing is I'm deviating the conversation from yes, no black, white. I hate you. You're horrible and you hate me too. Something which is not only more, more productive towards solving whatever that person is coming up with, but also it's more interesting for the other members of the audience.

So it's a process. No, it's interesting to have that process screwed in your brain because when the moment comes, when you're under fire, the last thing you can do is think. So you should stop, think, act. I also always say this because I'm a scuba diver. So the number one rule in scuba diving is stop, think, act.

Because if you act first, you may dies. Like you, you are at 25 meters of depth. You run out of air, you shoot to the surfers, you're dead. Embol. Yeah. Instead of that, you look for your body and then. [00:28:00] You think, and then you take his regulator and then that's it. Problem solved, stop, think, act. The number one thing when the situation is all right, is shut up.

Shut up. Give yourself time to think.

Arthur: The power of silence. We see it. And when we're in those, when we're in those situations it's very clear the impact it can have. So super interesting. You talk about that and fear, a lot of people get very nervous before a speech. What do you tell them?

Javier: Number one, rehearse. Rehearse nonstop as many times as you can. My mom she used, she worked for an NGO, which was trying to. To have the uns come up with a declaration of the universal rights of the family. I didn't go anywhere, but she kept going to New York and to Vienna and she was a very shy woman.

Very much an introvert. And she stood up and she spoke to all [00:29:00] those people in that huge place. And I always think of my mom when talking about stress control, because she did it through rehearsing. She rehearsed her speeches like a hundred times at home. She stood up and she did it again and again.

Number one, consequence of that, you sound more natural, as I said. Number two, your fears are your fear. You're able to control your fear. Now you need to be stressed. If you're not stressed, when you face an audience, it's going to be bad. Yeah, because you won't have enough power to show enthusiasm and authority, so you need to be stressed.

It's completely normal because you're facing a situation, which is, by the way, not real because you think they're after you. The audience wants to want, they want to eat you up. They're, they don't, they just want you to have a great time. Otherwise, they suffer. When you shake, when you sweat in front of them, they suffer with you.

It's called empathy. So it's a very natural reaction to a perceived psychological danger, which is, it's two pronged. It's the possibility of losing [00:30:00] self-esteem, number one. And everything you do in your mind is geared towards loving yourself. Number two. It's the possibility of rejection because we're social animals.

If you're rejected now, it's okay. You move from London to Manchester, or maybe they like you there, and if they don't in London, but 50,000 years ago when leaving caves, if they kicked you out of the cave, you're there in no time. So the fear of rejection, we have screwed deep down in our brains. So what do you do?

Number one, as I said, rehearse number two, know what's going on inside. So when you recognize your fear, that's when you're able to manage it. And that fear, as I said is baseless. But to you, it's so very real. So know what's going on and know that you are shaking and you're sweating because you're a perfect survival machine and you're getting ready to face danger.

And then the other most important thing is you need to breathe very slowly and very deeply right before you start. When you breathe [00:31:00] slowly and deeply, you calm yourself down because you're telling your sympathetic nervous system, which is the one that kicks us into action, that everything is fine.

Otherwise, you would be panting. So breathe slowly. I do this, I breathe in counting to four seconds, then I hold it for a couple of seconds. I exhale counting to four. Again, hold it for a couple of seconds. Inhale, 4, 2, 4, 2, 4, 2. They in the mil, in military, they call it the box, which is 4, 4, 4, 4 seconds. I find it too stressful if you are stressed to not breathe for four.

So I got it down to two and it works 4, 2, 4, 2, 4, 2, 4, 2. And then after five minutes of doing that, you'll end up yawning because you'd be so relaxed then not relaxed to fall asleep, but relax with the, with enough energy to perform. Which is what they need you to do.[00:32:00]

Arthur: So human psychology how people behave. Have you spent a lot of time researching to understand the nuances of human behavior and body language?

Javier: Yes. It's not my main focus of research, but I've trained in excess of 10,000 individuals. So like you, I, so I make you speak in front of an audience and then I tape you and then we watch the recording. I probably, if I had kept them all, it's 30,000 recordings of people speaking now.

From observing people in on stage, the patterns are so clear that I guess I'm not a psychologist, but I could write a book on what people do with the gestures.

For instance, someone is scratching hands, they have a problem. They, if they do it all the time, they [00:33:00] are looking down. Of course. It's a very clear sign of I don't wanna be here. They're moving their feet all over the place. They're stressed, they have excess energy. They don't know what to do with it.

They waste it in a way, which is not conducive towards showing power and showing enthusiasm. So this is what we said at the start. When you know how you express yourself, you can build on what's good, and then fine tune the components of your nonverbal expression that will make you come across as more powerful and more enthusiastic.

The stones of research, so again, I'm not an expert on this, but so much as psychological research on how we express ourselves, which comes from the late 19th century and then 20th century. And of course now, because before that the analysis of nonverbal expression was very broad, very abstract.

And if you read the classics, Aristo, RO Quin, all these guys they're not very clear on what should we do with our system when we [00:34:00] express ourselves. It's very broad strokes. Cicero said it's like playing a harp. So you strike one quarter or another depending on what you wanna say.

Okay, thank you very much. What do I do with my harp? So yes, it's there. There's tons of research, thousands of papers on this. There's also a lot of pop psychology, by the way. Nonverbal expressions. Just many books How to come across as a confident speaker. Okay? Handle with care. Some of them are very well researched, some others are just

Arthur: Yeah.

Javier: self-help manuals.

Arthur: Yeah. Any recommend reading?

Javier: One is Alan and Barbara pe, P-E-A-S-E. They're married and they've published quite a few books on number of expressions. Again it's probably self-help, but the stone of solid backing for what they say. And then the other one is a guy who used to work for [00:35:00] the FBI, who's called Joe Navarro.

Navarro, I think it's his Spanish origin, Navarro, NAVA double RO. And he wrote a book called What Everybody is Saying, everybody is separated Towards. He's an expert in in detecting liars. So based on what he did, he's used at the FBI, he wrote this book, a very interesting book also.

Arthur: You talked a bit about how different people have their natural styles. Is this a part of your communication that you want to focus on and tweak?

Javier: I am always trying to concentrate on my eye contact. So the hardest thing to manage of your nonverbal components of expression in front of an audience is eye contact. Because the rest of the things that compose your express, your expression is hands, arms, feet, movement on [00:36:00] stage, weight on one hip or the other.

The way you use your face expression, you, the modulation of your voice, okay? Those become, when you train them, they become seconding very fast. You don't have to think about them anymore. They just work eye contact. You always have to think always, because we tend to scan a room.

Now, eye contact is the normal one skill to transmit authority. So what you do is you look at everyone in that room for three to five seconds. It's like having mini conversations problem. We scan. So some people don't even scan. They look up or they look down or they look at just one person because they're not very comfortable in, in that situation.

But we scan because we are trying to avoid their evaluation unconsciously, maybe. And then we scan because I'm getting information overdose. So when I look at a person in the room for a bit, my brain is distracted because he's saying, stop looking at that person. You have to think about what to say next.

It's too much information coming in. So instead of that I scan. So you always have to think. And if you ask me [00:37:00] that one thing would be eye contact. It's just 1, 2, 3. Okay, next person. One, two. Three, four, because we also tend to focus on the nice faces, the ones who look like they're appreciating what you're saying, and then you forget about the rest.

Arthur: And let's say you are invited to talk at the World Economic Forum. It's the biggest talk you've ever talked at. You are feeling a bit nervous, just before you go in, is that a sentence that you would tell yourself before? And try and focus your mind.

Javier: Okay. Instead of a sentence, let me give you something else you can do. Talk to the IT guy. Become friends with that guy because he's going to be your support. And if you know that you are one with that person, you feel safer, maybe the camera guy. I always make a point of going an hour early and talk to the person organizing that huge thing and direct me towards the sound the guy in the control room.

So I stay [00:38:00] quite a good while with that person. And then I feel safer because I know he has my back. Now, one sentence I may say is just keep going. I do this in mountain biking. I do a lot of mountain biking and with scary descents, very rocky, full of roots, very slippery. Where you fall and you break your rib, like I've done three times.

What I do is just keep going. I don't think it, just keep going.

I go and I cruise through that segment. If I think too much, then I just walk the segment. So keep going. Just, you can do it, you can do it. It's cliche maybe, but you keep going. I just keep going.

Arthur: Yeah, that, that resonates a lot. And okay, so what about, you're just about to have a huge talk and you get a message on your phone. It's really bad news. You are thrown, the nerves are in the stomach. You are feeling a bit wobbly. Do you just think writing, shut out everything that's happening there and just completely focus?

Javier: Yes. Actually, it's happened to me so many times. [00:39:00] So let me give you an example. My, my mountain bike was stolen in my car right in front of the university. I had it in my car because I was taking it to the repair shop. After class. So I go to class, come down three hours, a later my bike's gone.

So they broke into my car. They stole my bike. If I tell you the price of my bike, you'll stop speaking to me because it's ridiculous. So I, what did I do? I had to, of course, call the police, call the insur insurance company would, who said, no, we're not giving you any money back on your bike at the, et cetera.

And then after that I had cla had class again, so 30 minutes to talk to the police. And then I had class for three hours in the afternoon and I just cruised. So I kept my mind off the thing and just kept doing what I needed to do. And then after that, I went home and I realized how horrible everything was.

And, when you are well recured, you can safely disconnect from whatever is wrong. Now, if it's [00:40:00] horribly wrong, of course, then for instance, I my dad fa passed away many years ago, but he was 91 already, so he died of old age, and I was actually teaching, so I was in front of a group, and then my brother, I get a call on my phone because he was not feeling very well.

So my phone was in vibration mode, my brother. So I take the call and then I said to my class, I'm sorry, I have to go my dad to slide. They're very shocked, of course. But in most situations just if you know what you have to do, you can always focus, think about the audience, think what they need from you, and think about them and about not about yourself.

And this is to say, of course, it depends on the situation, but you need to be well rehearsed. When you're rehearsed, you can just keep going.

Arthur: Two speeches that you've seen that people can watch online, that you recommend to watch to learn from.

Javier: Number one is a lady called Jill Bolty Taylor. Jill Taylor. She's a neurosurgeon. And she had a stroke [00:41:00] herself. So it's like analyzing in herself what she was analyzing in her patients. And she tells, it's a Ted Talk. She tells the audience about that experience. It's an amazing speech. It's very well structured.

Her style is fantastic and the other one, I would say, this is an older one but Churchill's speech, we shall fire on the beaches. We shall fire on the, which is a very funny style. Of course it wouldn't work today, which says what we're talking about before the cultural thing.

So Churchill today would seem like fake, probably same as Maddo in Bene or U Chave before him, U Chave, the way he spoke, which is very enthusiastic, very amusing if we did that in Spain. As imagine he was a span. You would be so weird because it's completely different style culturally. So [00:42:00]those two

.

Arthur: javier, thank you so much for today, for for sharing so much wisdom and what an interesting chat. Really grateful for your time. And if people, if professionals want to learn from you more can they find you online?

Javier: Yeah, of course. First, thank you so much, Arthur. It was a joy to, to be with you again after, after so many years of

After, since we met at ra e and Yes. The only thing if you want to link up with me, my name is j. B-E-R-N-A-D, which is like Bernard with the, without the final RI spent half my life correcting my last name, but it's very easy to find me on LinkedIn.

Javier Berna.