Lighting Expert Sally Storey on the Magic of Light: Practical Tips, Big Ideas & Beautiful Stories

Arthur: Sally Storey. Wow. Water privilege. It is to have you here. Your name is synonymous with lighting. I've been told to introduce people properly and look across your projects that institutions you've let the lighting on the Barclay Lords Cricket Ground con. Yes. And and hugely, in the residential sector how did you come into to lighting?

Sally: I feel. Enormously privileged that even now, A, to be speaking to you, but also talking about my passion because I love light as much today as I did when I started.

So I've always been interested in design. I did physics, chemistry, and maths at a level. 'cause my stringing of words together wasn't that good. But I wanted to be an art. So I read architecture at university at Bristol. Which I loved 'cause that brings your art and science together and I was fascinated by light and did a thesis in my second [00:01:00] year and that nobody studied light at that time.

And that really brought me in touch with different people. There was new companies starting. There was ER code lighting, Concord lighting, and there was a man called John Cullen who had just left the BBC doing. Film, filming and lighting for shows and had set up a residential lighting arm on his own from a living room.

And I went to see him and interview him as part of my thesis. I go up to this living room on the first floor in Smith Street, off the Kings Road, and start to interview him. And then he says to me. I'm second year architecture. Mind you, look at that corner shop across the road. Will you design my showroom for me to demonstrate light?

And that [00:02:00] was really the beginning of the whole story in that I said yes. Walked outta that interview, terrified about what I just said. Thinking, but I'll make it work. Went back the next day and started designing that showroom and that became like a lighting pod, which I always feel is essential to demonstrate how lighting works because it's an inner emotion and when it changes around you, you feel different.

And so I designed the showroom. That helped also with my thesis and thereon continued working every holiday for him. Drawing up all the plans for new lighting.

Arthur: Did you find yourself, in those early years, noticing lighting,

 had it always been something that you'd you'd noticed?

Sally: Lighting in those days was very much not considered in residential. It was very much [00:03:00]considered for museums. There were some great quality lights, but they were all huge and. One of the things that John and I began to feel was we were sourcing all over Europe for lighting products, and it was really in its infancy.

It was the beginning of halogen, and so that was the first lighting revolution. Halogen brought miniature miniaturization and what was really interesting was when I left university after my third year, I had the option of doing, you go to study on architecture, but. John Cullen offered me a job and 10% of the business to come and work for him then and there.

So I really haven't looked back and I've never worked anywhere else. And what it did mean was that at that stage we started thinking how can we take the knowledge of the museum lighting, miniaturize it [00:04:00] with the new halogen source and create a totally new. Toolkit of lighting that we could use in residential, and that's what we did.

Arthur: What part of the process do you most enjoy? Back

Sally: over the years I've been into many houses. One of the things that lighting is, and I think that I love in design is I love contemporary design and I love very traditional design.

So understanding the difference between the modern and the historic is very important. The other thing is people's aspirations. Lighting can be very over the top and or it can be very subtle. So one of the things I have to do is understand the brief and what the client wants and then deliver it. And that's probably one of the most fun things with lighting is sometimes I can be very theatrical.

Sometimes I can be very subtle, but it's trying to deliver what the client wants [00:05:00] and create the right lighting mode with whatever light source. So one time it might be a whole series of downlights or uplights. The next, it might be what light source I use within a chandelier, and could I incorporate a mini downlight within it to create the effect I want?

Arthur: Sometimes one speaks to, shares or people who build technology and they look at their product. They, there's always this like never ending sense of frustration that it's not, they want to change this and that IE things can never feel complete. Do you relate to that or?

Do you feel like you reached that sense of completeness?

Sally: I'd say that if you're a designer, you've never finished because as a designer there are always new influences coming. So having explained how we design the miniature pole spring for the halogen revolution, I then adapted that to have the LED revolution,

that was another huge. Revolution within the industry in [00:06:00] that suddenly there was even greater miniaturization and energy efficiency. So therefore, my whole toolkit had to change and it gave new opportunities. And even today, I'd say, I'm always looking at how I can make things even better, how I can do things differently, how I interpret things differently.

And that's probably why. I never get bored.

Arthur: What a privilege for you to have this passion and to be able to work in so many different environments. Because you've actually been a huge innovator on the actual, on the lighting product itself, haven't you talk to us about that and perhaps I know that there are some very small lights that you've been focusing on recently.

We'd love to hear a bit more about. About your impact in the space and perhaps what that might look like going forward.

Sally: I'd say the first Revit Lucian was with the halogen, as I explained, where we [00:07:00]miniaturize the downlights that were being used that previously had been quite big, therefore only suitable for hotels would seem rather ungainly in a house.

And we miniaturized them and we also set the light source back to make sure that there was no glare from it. That downlight that we did has probably inspired lots of other manufacturers modesty, and I don't think they perfected them to the level of glare control that we still have. Then it took me on to the idea of uplighting.

Before you could only uplight with huge grate. Fixtures. I miniaturized that with halogen, it wasn't perfect because the light source got very hot, so therefore was not ideal. But with LED technology, it's actually miniaturized and therefore, and it's low heat, which meant that I could achieve [00:08:00] all those effects of uplighting walls, uplighting architectural features like arches that or fireplaces and.

Introduce little pockets of light to places that people hadn't thought about before. And then I also did the floor washer, which sounds an odd thing to do. Used to be a brick light as a guidance light. Very commercial in the wall. And we were doing a kitchen which had a scoop handle I that said a light could be like that, and then light the stairs.

I was probably one of the first to do a floor washer that lit the stairs, and at that time, I also named them after my children. So I had a kazaa for the floor washer, a Luca for the uplight, and then actually I did a Lanter light for my son Alexander. But sadly, that's now been discontinued. But being able to develop those miniature products really was wonderful.

Now, take that [00:09:00] forward. Miniaturization is. Increased, and you asked me about the smallest product, we now do something they call the mini, literally the size of a five pence piece that can be recessed into a shelf and beautifully light an object. So the role of lighting and how I can use new technology is evolving all the time.

Arthur: So interesting. On the occasions I've been to someone's home who's an obsessed curator, you can see how much thought goes into a space and the attention to detail. Are there some times where you've been in an unusual home, or maybe it's a commercial environment where you are, where there's been an object that you've, that's been quite unusual and you just know, gosh, that's gonna involve, a complete new way of thinking?

Sally: I'd say, particularly thinking of art, curating and curating for the home, often the first introduction somebody might come to think about lighting their home is because they have an art collection. [00:10:00] And therefore they want to light it correctly. But art these days is so different. So from doing the picture light and we do a lovely Wallace picture light that lights.

In a very, in a more contemporary way, in a very slim, classical way, a picture ideal for more traditional pictures or even contemporary pictures as a picture light, or it's from a spotlight in the ceiling where the surface or recessed, or sometimes the picture might benefit from a framing projector where the object is entirely framed with light and there is no spill light, and it really draws its attention to that.

Or what happens these days is some pieces of art are internally lit, so you've got to balance those that are lit internally, or could be video art with those, that one's lighting oneself and sometimes one has to make the balance [00:11:00] of it. Which ones do you have where to make the ambience within the room, correct?

Arthur: And you've worked on quite a few boats as well. They're extraordinary. For a few reasons, but probably also for the budget. Can you think of a time where you have been on a project where they've just given you such creative room to do what you want and you've approached things in a quirky way?

Sally: I'd say lighting really in a design team is a collaboration. I find that when I'm working, and soup yachts is something I both help to judge and I've designed several of. They're rather amazing in that they're almost like doing a piece of the ultimate jewelry box or piece of joinery because quite honestly, everything is inbuilt.

It's a millimeter, is almost the tolerance. You're able to do things that you might not normally be able to integrate lighting into [00:12:00] because you are at such a high tolerance. It does give you an expression to try different things, light, and it's also everything is inbuilt. So you're not in an old historic building.

You can't send the in-build the lighting 'cause you've got to keep. The historic fabric intact. So when you're designing a super yacht, you're designing everything from scratch. So every little detail is fully integrated and in a way that makes it so special, and therefore there are certain effects you can do, whether it's backlit, front lit, even cycles of mood control, that might be harder in a more historic environment.

Arthur: Speaking of environments. some environments are so well lit and there's a lot of commentary on urban environments. Obviously more people live in urban environments than before. and I guess, if we take a step back, lighting, it sits everywhere we go, right?

Outdoors, indoors I see [00:13:00] know, a fantastic lighting for garden. What, which environments do you think lag behind on lighting where you are really earing to get work in.

Sally: Weirdly enough, originally the super yachts were behind the houses because they hadn't developed the same criteria.

I think what is really interesting and also. LED and the environment we're in now has been a revolution that everybody talks about. Everybody has to use LED now because of the energy considerations. What most people don't notice or don't know about is how to select the correct LED. I say this because there are so many bad L LEDs out there.

You can buy from the supermarket you bring home, you walk into your house, you plug them in. The color's too white. It doesn't dim. It actually looks gray and in fact, one's environment, you almost want to turn it off and put the candles back on

Arthur: awkward when it's your host and you must have to keep your mouth quite stern [00:14:00] on lots of occasions.

Sally: I'm often asked when I go, is this all right? I often don't really want to say too much. I think the hard thing is that understanding what. And that's why in lockdown, I wrote a book called Inspired by Light that the RIBA asked me to write to help interior designers and architects understand about light.

Now, the basis of that was a lot of people understand about the color temperature, but weirdly enough, some people call 3000 Kelvin warm, I'd cold call it cold. 2,700 is meant to be warm, and I'd call that every day. And I call 2,200 or 2,400 warm. And most people haven't even heard of that. So if you think of the old tungsten bulb, that was 2,400.

Yet now we're living in a colder environment. Yet the restaurant you want to sit in is the one that is candlelit, even today as you're walking down the street. So I felt my whole [00:15:00] book, and. Life is to explain to people how to achieve the right color and the right ambience because too much out there is being sold as warm and is really cool and not the right color temperature, but it goes beyond that most cheap or cost effective LED as people call it in the supermarkets.

Don't consider how the light renders the colors. Its lighting. Daylight is a hundred percent. Halogen was a hundred percent. And LEDs, when they started rendered things at about 70%. Hence, their color rendition index, which it is meant everything appeared gray. See, although you saw the colors somehow when you walked into an environment, I wonder if you've ever felt this.

You feel like the energy is being sucked out of you?

Arthur: That [00:16:00] unfortunately yes,

Sally: but sometimes when you walk into an environment, and that's what I've been concentrating in, that all our lights are above 95%. Everything seems alive and you're not really quite sure why. And most people don't understand that.

They've grabbed one idea, but they don't realize that light also has to render everything at the right. Ah. 95% to make you feel alive. And it's something that you'd understand if you're filming, but if you're just buying a lamp, you don't know that and you're not educated to know that. And that's one of my reasons that I'm trying to educate people because it's really important to understand that it's the quality of light, not just the color temperature.

Arthur: Sorry, that might be a bit scientific. No. The education piece is very a challenge. We've had the privilege of being here in your incredible studio. Light can do a lot and it can really connect people to [00:17:00] spaces. Connection's a big theme in the minute for people and what it can give people.

Had a incredible. Chap on, on the podcast talking about how how influential the reptilian part of the brain is and how, it's your, your basic human needs. It seems that's really linked to light in, in the sense that, light can really connect you to your environment and really changed some things.

What does that connection how can light connect people to their environment and what are the different ways in which it can do that?

Sally: Light to me is an emotion you feel, so when I'm showing people in a book or different effects, you have a visual experience of seeing flowers lit, not lit, and it has one impact.

If you're in the space and see the flowers lit and not lit, you feel something internally. And one of the things that we've looked at particularly is, and there's a lot of talk about, is the circadian rhythm in that. The light changes from [00:18:00] dawn to dusk. It goes from a warm color at dawn. It then becomes much cooler and brighter through the day, and then it becomes much warmer at night.

And we all know that those studies have been done. Hence, our computers now changing from a whiter light to a warmer light 'cause they know that the way that the body works is. You actually want to go through that rhythm altogether. And that's, I, there's been a lot of research also in health situations where a hospital environment might be cold all the time and they're now trying to introduce that rhythm into those spaces.

And that's also something, one, in a way I try to do within the home, not in the same scientific way as thinking of the hospitals because. In the day, you've got daylight. Normally, we've normally got a house with windows, so that is providing the whiter light. So that's why I concentrate so much on creating the warmth and the interest at night, because otherwise you're [00:19:00] gonna continue with the whiter light in the evening when rarely we're wanting to create the warmer light.

Yeah. So that's why I use a variety of lighting temperatures within the home to make that connectivity and make you feel more welcomed and relaxed in the evening. Brother that's still on the go.

Arthur: So interesting. And in fact, Brian Johnson who's leading the longevity movement on how to live longer he's big on his red light therapy.

Knowing very little about using different colors for example, in an environment where you wanna sleep, do you think that we are. We doing things in the wrong way? Given the technology we have now and the capacity to be able to personalize light or, want, pre sleep mode and whatnot.

Where are we doing well in general? Is the cost of these systems far too high? What does what does the future look like in your optimal view?

Sally: I think we're still in the discovery zone. Okay. I'd say because. A lot of the way the technology could be used, you have to think, how [00:20:00] can you put it into a situation you could use in the home?

So that's why I do it by combining sources, but rarely it's very much out there. I think what's good is it's being talked about. I think the more one explores and talks about the more one thinks of applications, and I think that's really exciting. I think. The more one thinks what lighting can do to an interior, you think, oh my goodness.

Or an exterior. And as you say, the whole idea of lighting the exterior is interesting in London to me going back is that I feel that it's like creating an extension of a home. You can light, if you've got a small kitchen and you've got a backyard, you like that you've got double the space at night because your visual impression goes out.

There are other things though. The dark skies at night. Briga. Yeah, brigade, which I think is really wonderfully. [00:21:00] We want to see more stars. So you've gotta think in the countryside. You don't have to light everything. You're not using except for a party, maybe the garden all the time. So how do you contain it?

So I think. The whole of life is about understanding how the tools you can use, how you can develop them and use them to the best ability. So in the urban environment, I probably use exterior more or in an internal courtyard and less in the countryside to keep that valuable darkness still alive.

Arthur: So fascinating.

Going back to this conversation I had earlier it was. In this rehabilitation center, dogs were given, it was very clear how amazing the therapeutic impacts. They can be lighting, must change so much in terms of all your, people's mental health and probably have a physical.

Impacts as well make you feel calmer and it's probably massively underused, utilized as in general. You work across so many different projects[00:22:00] be it, an office or a restaurant, nightclub, airport, homes in from here to Kazakhstan and back. There must be different, so many different goals that you are, taught to focus on and therefore some of the interesting learnings.

In terms of what light can achieve. So for example, in a commercial environment, getting people to look at objects to be solved, for example or facilities to be used, or people to maybe find their way around a complex environment. Talk to us about, the surprises of what light can actually, how it can change human behavior.

Sally: I think human behavior is affected because lighting's an emotion. It's affected by lots of one's senses. So for the office to be bright and crisp is probably quite good 'cause it makes you more alert. I think that's why changing the environment to a softer, warmer environment when you go home is so important.

So if it was crisp and white, you might still feel you're in the office. So it doesn't have [00:23:00]introduce. Your calming feel that, oh, now I can relax. So I think lighting and the way it changes is really important. I think it's also psychologically as you are walking down a road, I think I mentioned earlier, if you see the candle lit, warm restaurant and then the cold one, even if it's beautifully designed, which one do you want to go into?

The warm one. Also, if you think about retail, really interesting. Been involved in retail. One is what color do you use for your face? Yeah. To get the, the impact you want to make a flattering light. If you're look in the makeup department, you don't want it to be too cold. You want it to be warmer.

If you're in the fruit and veg department, the meat needs to be slightly a warmer color temperature, but fish could even be cooler. 3,500, even 4,000, so that the silver, this of the freshness looks better. So lighting and. The colors you [00:24:00] use can really influence the space. Also, if you've got natural light coming in, you might need a slightly cooler light so it blends more easily.

If you've controlled the environment and you've got a totally warm environment and totally unile it, then suddenly you have full control to make that person feel different in their mood. So lighting, I certainly will have changed the colors. Obviously keeping the right color rendition index to suit what I'm lighting.

And you're right, there's so much study right now and there's so much available, but in a way, that's also the danger that's too much available that people dunno how to use effectively and gets thrown in without actually being used properly.

Arthur: Super interesting and for people who don't have a big budget, they live in an urban flat, say two bedroom flat.

. Lights already [00:25:00] built into the walls. Are there three top tips you have

Sally: I would definitely, if all they've got to start with is appendant the thing that I probably in the center, I would say go for a high quality, dim to warm lamp or something, and a dimmer.

I would also plug in low level lights, or I would potentially, you could remove the pendant, plug in low level lamps, and therefore get that soft side light again with a soft lamp, even introduce some up lighting in the corner with a plugin light source. You could then potentially, and I've done this before, use that light source even with a track to light one's art to create an immediate impact.

I know I did in my early days when a few people first got their homes. We did a bit of lighting and somebody thought, so we took out the central pendant. I lit the pictures and we added the lamps, and everybody came into his house and thought he, we'd [00:26:00] redecorated the house. So it made an immediate impact.

I also remember here we have a wonderful kitchen display, which is really an IKEA kitchen. A client came in, couldn't afford the lighting budget, decided. Actually, I'll buy an IKEA kitchen and light my light the kitchen properly. And she said afterwards, she said it was the best decision in that she, then everybody came in to think, oh my God, this looks amazing.

And the budget was less. So there's always tricks you can do, but don't underestimate lighting. It's a lot cheaper in many ways to change the way things look and even. In this showroom, which I might share with you later, you can see how cheap tiles look rather magnificent when lit

Arthur: There, there's no way about it.

It's art what you do and you are the artist. But we're now gonna jump into some quick follow up questions before you really show us [00:27:00] how, how all these things work. Three things you get joy from.

The L word can't be used. Okay. Let,

Sally: could I say natural light?

Arthur: Yeah, you can.

Sally: Feels it feels like desert island. Na, no. Natural light has inspired me right from the very beginning and I absolutely, so natural light food, stroke, taste, and sound. Although I'd say I'm sound, I'm probably no. Yes. Taste. So food and taste. Natural, light texture.

Arthur: Wonderful

a ma a mantra you want to embrace now would be

Sally: I'd feel life is so challenging. Live for the moment.

Arthur: Live for the moment. Words of wisdom. A favorite book artist or film that isn't obvious.

Sally: I'd say Al Alto. Okay. Finnish architect. I'm half Finnish. And he inspired me to read [00:28:00]architecture in the first place. And so probably his art and the way he designed things has been such a important guidance for me. Amazing flower vs. That makes flowers always land in the right place.

Arthur: Something you want to learn more about?

Sally: Everything.

Arthur: You've had a difficult call, a bit of work you really wanted, hasn't quite ended up working out in the way you expected. How do you swing back?

Sally: Life has its challenges. You just solve them. You solve them nothing. If no one dies. That's the important thing. And I can't, now, I'm trying to think what would be really if I get a bad call, I cope with it. I don't really, you don't. It is not the end of the world basically. It's not the end of the world.

And there's something around the corner and I'm a really positive person. I probably keep [00:29:00]smiling.

Arthur: You can add one night, morning bucket list today, what would it be?

Sally: More holidays.

Arthur: Where? Where? Is it?

Sally: Everywhere.

Arthur: Something you wish you knew when you were younger.

Sally: Not to worry.

Arthur: The world works in a certain way today. It could be perhaps in relation to lighting, but if you could change one thing, what would you change?

Maybe it's better IP protection , on the lights.

Sally: Better ip. I think if there's one thing in the world to change today is communication and making people listen. I think it's such a sad world sometimes. I think if only people talk to each other.

Arthur: Love that. Love that. Woo-hoo. We've done it.

We've done it. I was

Sally you probably have to sign so many NDAs given the type of clients and businesses you work for.

I dunno how people get your time. I dunno how I've got your time today, but can you think of any interesting stories of people you work with?

Sally: I feel so privileged in my life to work for so many [00:30:00] people. Most of whom I can't talk about as life is, but one of the early ones that I did, which always sticks in my me, in my mind, partly because.

In my mind, he was a, God was David Bowie. I did his flat in New York. And I so remember doing the setup at the end of the lighting, the commissioning aspect to make sure it was all right. They were unpacking and I'm just saying, is this scene set? All right. And David Bow says, come and sit beside me on the sofa and tell me what do you think of my new album?

And I really was speechless. Did not know what to say. And. That has probably been one of my most iconic moments, still to this day.

Arthur: Wow. One of many stories. I'm sure. I'm sure. Thank you so much. It's been such a privilege having you on, and hopefully you've inspired many listeners to probably follow their passion.

But one final thing I wanted to ask you is, because you've clearly been open to learning about, this space and following [00:31:00] with curiosity when you were younger do you feel. Is there a message there or, for people looking for something they love to do,

Sally: I'd say in the end of the day, follow your heart.

I, it is been a privilege for me to love what I do today as much as I did at the beginning. And if you do have a passion to spend, most of the time when you think about it working and you love it, that's such a privilege. That's more of a privilege. Then all the money in the world.