Beyond the Hamster Wheel: Health and Nutrition Coach Grace Williams on Living with Purpose, Strength & CONFIDENCE

Arthur: [00:00:00] Grace Williams, you are a health and nutritionist expert. It's been with an incredible story, a story of resilience a story of giving a story of having tremendous purpose purpose is a powerful word.

And when I met you, it's clear you are so synced with having such a big purpose and there's quite a, a unique story to how you got there. Talk to us about how you relate to, to purpose.

Grace: Yeah, so thank you. Firstly, it is such an honor to be here. I purpose for me was something, I never knew what it meant. I was like, some people have a purpose, some people don't. But for me now, it's ultimately what's important to you. And finding my purpose meant going through a lot of pain, a lot of things that I would never have expected.

I always say I was on that trajectory of life was happening [00:01:00] of, I got good grades at school, went to uni, did exams there, did well there, went into, I then decided to do law, was going to law school. It's like this whole sort of. The path was mapped out of just this, like you study, you do you go into law, and then that's going to be your career and that's gonna be the next 30, 40 years.

And then some curve balls were thrown at me and it completely knocked me off that path. But actually for the best reasons, because it meant I found my purpose, which is what I get to do now. And it's, I think, yeah, purpose has become something that's now super important to me because it means I'm in alignment with both energy and also having a sense of knowing where I'm going.

I didn't really have a direction before someone else dictated the direction, and now it's being able to create my own direction with that.

Arthur: the hurdles, re resilience is something you've [00:02:00] clearly, has been a, challenging, but b you've really taken out. What you can and turn things into to opportunities. Give us a flavor of, the context to that.

Grace: Yeah, so I was trundling along. I was a lawyer, I was still a trainee at the time. Had gone into, I was at a US law firm and it had been a super busy start to being a trainee. It was that classic thing of working until 3:00 AM never really seeing friends rushing things at the weekend. I, but actually like really thriving off that kind of, loving that sense of this must mean I'm doing so well.

And then out of nowhere, it was 2019, that summer my mom was diagnosed with a brain tumor and it completely knocked us all sideways. And within the space of weeks, we went from just regular life. It was actually July, so similar time to now, and it [00:03:00] was. That summer, like summer plans were building and suddenly it was like, oh my gosh, all of that is out the window.

And we were thrown into sort of the medical hospital world. Very quickly she went for a biopsy, results were coming back, and it was then we had this treatment plan for the next six weeks of chemo radiotherapy. All of this, all of these things, terms that you've heard of before. But I just didn't really understand.

And then

Arthur: And . How old are you at this point?

Grace: I was 24 at the time. So really didn't understand anything. I will say. It then was like, okay, we've now got this. We've always been a very we were a close family, so it was very much, okay, what are we doing to deal with this as a family? But I felt quite responsible for looking after my mom from a caring perspective.

But that was then really thrown to the fore when. So it was then December that year my dad was diagnosed with lymphoma and it was actually [00:04:00] Christmas day that we had to go through this whole malarkey of taking him to hospital at 9:00 PM which a and e on Christmas day is like an episode of Bedo mixed with East Enders mixed with Love Island.

Like it was just the craziest thing to watch at 2:00 AM when we were still there, but it was suddenly this thing of oh my gosh, what is happening? Obviously with the context that then suddenly we get thrown into COVID. This whole, these like curve balls were basically life being thrown in so many different directions and overnight my priority shifted from like work being total number one to just wanting to be there for my parents, but actually having a really hard time balancing that internally because.

I was driven to be ambitious to do well at work. And so the feeling of letting that drop but also not wanting to let the family side of things drop created this like whole sense of pressure and understanding, okay, what is it that's [00:05:00] important to me and where do I stand within this? Which kickstarted this purpose journey.

That sort of caring experience was basically ended up being three years. So my mom, it was incredible. She was given six months, she lived with it, four, lived with the brain tumor for three years, and we had a lot of ups and downs within that. As my dad recovered and got better, my mom got worse. So it was watching these two very different journeys.

And then she ultimately passed away in summer 2022, so three years ago on Monday, which was. The way that was another curve ball because the trajectory was supposed to be, I say supposed what everyone says with the brain tumors. It's a very slow process. You'll know when the decline is. But my mom had been sick for such a long time that when she passed away, it genuinely was like the biggest shock in the world, even though we knew it was coming because the way that it happened was [00:06:00] just so fast.

And so again, it was like this overnight, oh my gosh, she's not here. That we'd been told it was a real slow process and you'd have these like days leading up to it. So yeah, all of these curve balls definitely built a lot of resilience and meant I had to go on a real personal journey throughout and after that.

Arthur: what's clear is how so much of your purpose at the moment is helping others. And you talked about what you cared about really changed and things seem to flip on the head as it were. Talk to us about how it changed what you value in the world.

Grace: Do you know? I think it actually. Just show me I didn't know what I valued and I really had never put any thought into it. I was like, it was like I was on this treadmill and I'd never taken a second to stop and be like, is this what I want? I always use the example of if someone asked me what I wanted to do, where did you want to go for dinner?

What do you [00:07:00] want to eat? It was like the worst question you could ask. I'd be like, I don't know. What do you want to do? Like it just, I'd never really taken that time to take a step back and work out what it was I wanted and also wasn't something I did in those years of caring. It was afterwards when suddenly you realized that your health is fragile.

Life is fragile. That it became, I started to notice where my resentments were and actually that was a real sign that I was potentially doing things that weren't in alignment with a purpose or something that I loved or was interested in. And so at started this whole sort of journey and I think. I see it quite a lot with my clients of people start to get interested in this sort of health and wellbeing side of things.

And within that becomes a lot of personal development work as well because you just, you start tuning out the noise, you tune out everything that's telling you what you should do, what's expected of you, and you actually start to get curious. And I think it did [00:08:00] take me going through those years in order to do that because I would've stayed on the trajectory of just like working for partnership, just keep on going, not questioning anything.

And actually just accepting a lot of how I was feeling as normal because I see that in clients now. It's like these things are all normal so we don't question them, but it does sometimes take taking a step back to really see what's coming up and it's definitely what it did for me to blow the gates open of just be like, hi, there's a lot more to life and where do you stand within that?

And I'm now so quick, especially around energy. I know if something, actually, if I don't really want to do it, I will be like, God, I'm exhausted. It's not that I'm actually tired, it's the that my energy just doesn't match with it. It's like it's not for me. I know I don't wanna do it. Whether it's a certain plan, a business idea, if my energy is not behind it, that's how I now know that actually maybe that's not something that's right for me, but that takes time to start getting in tune with [00:09:00] that.

We tune out of our bodies so much and , it's a real process to tune back in.

Arthur: those that have huge, huge amounts of energy, passion, able to give a lot. What are, the themes that you can see in them and how do you advise people to connect with themselves?

Grace: So I think the biggest thing is, again, coming back to that purpose, but they have a path they have, they know what their end goal is, and this can be on a big level of a business goal you want to achieve. Or it can be on a very small level of okay, this week I want to cook three meals at home.

It can be on so many different scales, but when you have a very clear end goal, weekly, monthly, daily, yearly. When you have that, your energy is behind it, which means actually you are motivated to do it. It's when we leave, things very unclear that I see people's energy dropped. You could say, oh, I really want to eat more healthily.

But if you haven't got [00:10:00] a clear map of what that looks like, you are not gonna have the energy behind it. So those people that you really see are full of beans and whether that is on the big career goal that they have, or to bring in a new change, it's because they're so clear a, on their why it's important to them, but also they have the path.

And very often we forget the path side. We're like, I know what it is I want, but we just don't have the okay, how am I going to get there? And the way that I will always work with people to tune back into that. The biggest thing I see is coming out of a stress response, and this is one of the building safety in your body as like an underlying theme throughout all of my work, because ultimately.

And this was my own personal journey. When you are stuck in fight or flight, when stress is your default, you cannot think in that expansive, what's available to me, what opportunities can I take? You are in lack, scarcity, narrow-mindedness, and you actually cannot see past [00:11:00] what's right in front of you. I knew for me, I ate the same meals on repeat.

I wore the same outfits on repeat because I just didn't have the capacity or the space to think outside of that. Particularly when I was a carer. That was like, I know, is it some, is it Steve Jobs who wore the same thing every day? There's there's a sense to it in the idea of okay, you're taking out some decisions, but when you actually think holistically, okay, do I have the capacity to try something different?

If that feels like too much, that's when stress is coming in and actually's really limiting you and it definitely was for me. And when you start to release that and actually. Bring safety and calmness back into the body. That's when suddenly I see with clients, they're like, gosh, I really want to try. It can, as I said, it can be on a small level or a big level.

I really want to try that new workout, or I've just put myself up for promotion. Those things come because they built that safety and they're able to see the opportunity elsewhere. Without that, you are like tunnel vision on what is in [00:12:00] front of me, and that's all I have the capacity for. Build that safety and you completely expand your capacity and that's how you start to tune in.

Your body is always going to communicate with you, but if we are shutting off those signals, then that's when it's really difficult to tap into that.

Arthur: clearly one needs that foundation to be sorted to be able to even be in this sort of expansive mode. are there some things that, one can do to help facilitate those foundations being correct? And I want to touch at some point, maybe now on compassion and self-compassion.

Grace: So I'll always start with understanding where you currently are. So really get very honest with yourself of are you stressed? 'cause you can ask yourself, am I stressed? No, I feel quite calm. But then think about how are you sleeping? What's your digestion like? How's your hunger? How's your energy? If all of those things are off, if you're very reactive to things that are happening, I always say, okay, if the train gets canceled this morning, how are you going to feel?

If that's the most frustrating thing to happen, [00:13:00] then it's a sign that actually your body is running more on. It's sort of survival response on resources as opposed to being very calm and peaceful and going about your day. 'cause when you feel calm about that, you can literally go, oh, there'll be another one.

10 minutes later. It's a bit annoying, but it's not gonna derail your day. How we react to things externally is such a clear reflection of our internal state, how we're feeling. So the first stage is always getting super clear on how is that coming up for you? Where are you on that stress spectrum? There are three stages to the stress response.

Are you just in that initial fight or flight? Yeah, got in stress, but I can come back out of it quite easily. Has it become your norm? Is it so natural to you that you're like, this is how. I was someone that said, and it would repeat this so many times, I'd be like, I do so much better when I'm stressed.

My work product is better when I'm stressed, when I'm under pressure. That's okay as long as you're coming out of it, but so many of us are not coming out of it. And so [00:14:00] seeing where it's coming up and then the tools that you can bring in are things. One of the most powerful things you can do is bookend your day.

How are you starting the day and how are you ending the day? So much of the middle part, whether that's work, you're building a business, you're with spending time with friends and family. You don't have a lot of control over that part of the day, but you have a lot of control out for how you start and how you finish it.

So on a physiological level, are you getting natural light? That is what helps regulate the cor natural release of cortisol. You're supposed to get this big spike in the morning. We want that to turn off, and natural light is the signal to do that. It's also going to give you natural energy and not stress induced energy in the evening.

Are you still on your phone 11:00 PM trying to go to sleep? Or do you have a space where actually you just take a second to be like, I'm now gonna wind down like this is my time for me. And when you create those spaces at the start and the end, it just gives your body a bit more resilience. And the more that's where you start and what [00:15:00] you'll slowly start to realize is you can build in so many more practices.

And where the self-compassion piece really actually massively comes in with that is when you are stressed. And even just when you are busy, not necessarily in that oh gosh, I'm so stressed type feeling. But when you are busy, self-compassion goes out the window 'cause your priorities are all external.

For me, self-compassion is coming back to what permissions are you giving yourself? What grace are you giving yourself to? Is it that you need to rest? Is it that you need just 10 minutes without someone emailing you? So you just need to leave your phone for 10 minutes and actually just have that space.

The self-compassion piece is understanding that you are your own priority. You are actually the only one that is going to prioritize yourself. And when you bring that in, say you slip up and you have a day where literally just like you are on high alert go. You don't stop. You also don't berate yourself or that because you know how to come back from it.

And I think it's a very, a lot of. Whether it's social [00:16:00] media, podcasts, there are so many things that we should be doing, but it then takes away a, the connection to what does work for me. But it also makes us feel like we're always failing 'cause we are never fitting enough in. So our self-compassion goes completely out the window.

'cause we are like, oh gosh, I didn't manage to do that 10 step morning routine that I've read about or listened to in that podcast. But actually, can you strip things back? And what's one thing that you need for you today? If you only achieve that, you still stuck to a promise. You can give yourself the compassion.

Give yourself the grace to know that another day might be better and you slowly build and build.

Arthur: you talked about how people have a funny relationship and Gil's big theme here around people taking time out in their day to do something and how the concept of us working from nine to five and being, equally productive over that time is just nonsense.

And how we are. We're really, as a species we're really still figuring a lot out. And some [00:17:00]businesses I think it's DeepMind the founder of DeepMind, he's very efficient at working at night, for example. And is super aware that's other people are efficient at working in the morning.

And how, hold on. Why don't, why don't they encourage people to be able to work when they can be efficient? Talk to us about people managing that relationship with guilt. And, what you do is super entrepreneurial. And, whether or not one's doing, doing their own thing or working in a business, there's always the to-do list always seems endless.

I'd be interested to hear your view on. How people can have a healthy sense in that. And and may, maybe there's a view on shortcuts. The cars are always talking about shortcuts. But but protecting energy, but yeah, being efficient.

Grace: It really, I think actually it's so powerful to know when you do work best because it within the structure of what you work in, whether it is you're building or anything, or you work within a company, knowing the [00:18:00] hours that you are going to be most focused is really important because ultimately that's the time that you want to maximize where the sort of, I think two things come in when you are on someone else's schedule.

So say it's that you are contracted to work from nine until five. We'll use that. You have those boundaries, but within that. Ultimately your work product, how much you have to deliver within those hours, that's what you are in control of. And so you get to do that in the time that it works for you. If you are super productive when you first get into the office, you know that actually that's the time for you to maybe put your headphones in, not engage with all the chat around the coffee machine and actually really focus on your work.

Because come 4:00 PM your focus isn't going to be as strong. So that's when naturally you want to start taking some breaks and that's when you bring in the coffee meeting or the BD research. That actually doesn't mean very much like tailoring your tasks. I always talk about tasks syncing, every task has a different energy and stress [00:19:00] behind it.

It might be that you have a full day of something that actually is super high stress, that's gonna take a lot of energy, a lot of focus, but you know that's what you have to face that day. The most important thing is like when you dedicate a task, is that important? The stress and how you approach that is only on that task.

When you then check your emails or go for a walk, you're then not walking at a hundred miles an hour and like it's an Olympic sport. We then have to actually think, hold on a second. I can do this calmly, but I can focus on my work with a lot of stresses. Stress is not a bad thing. Stress is actually something we really want to use for our advantage.

And the when we can is when it's something that requires drive, motivation, focus, getting something done efficiently. That's when stress. We want to tip into fight or flight. Use that to our advantage, but then very quickly come out of it once that task is done. The problem is we don't come out of it.

We go in, but we don't come out. And so [00:20:00] if you find that energy is dipping at certain points of the day, two things I would always say, get outside. Firstly, if you find your energy dipping, really go see some natural light, get some fresh air. It will give you such a boost. But then also think about how are you fueling yourself?

Because I've spoken a lot about output. So the doing, but a lot of my work is all around making sure you have the internal foundations to maximize and optimize that output. And that comes down to both your recovery, but also your fuel. How are you eating? What foods are you eating? And if you find that actually your focus always drops at 4:00 PM maybe your lunches aren't working for you.

Maybe actually you are not eating enough in the morning, that's then having this real energy crash in the afternoon. And so it's a very holistic picture at looking at, hold on. Where there is a natural level that some of us work better later in the day and some of us work better earlier in the day.

We all have different timings around that, but the way that we [00:21:00] fuel ourselves will also dictate that as well. People that are super focused have a lot of like energy first thing in the morning, fuel themselves. They feel themselves that their blood sugar is balanced, they're not having a crash, and they're able to sustain that energy because they keep it going through the day.

So there's a real input sort of angle to this as well of thinking. Okay. The job part, I can't control. What's in my control is A, knowing when I work best, but B, how am I fueling this work? How am I making sure it's sustained? Am I running off coffee and then trying to make it until lunchtime? That's not gonna be conducive to actually staying focused just between nine to five.

If you have more flexibility and actually you can have a very slow morning work later in the evening if you dictate your hours, like I dictate my hours now, and I know that actually I don't work very well between six five and seven. Those are my hours where I'm like, those are for me. I then pick up work afterwards.

I'm also not a morning person, so I don't force myself to start at 8:00 AM It's all, [00:22:00] if you have some control, that's when you can bring it in. But knowing your how you're supporting yourself through that, I think is very important. I think that was the second part of your question. I've just completely forgotten it.

Arthur: don't test me on the second part. So yeah, there's, I mean there's a lot there. There's a lot there. So one theme I think is quite intriguing is it's co the compound impact that small differences can make. Are there some things you work with, some of your clients that illustrate that the power of that, maybe it's getting up earlier or later. And how small changes can lead to big things in that are unrelated to that specific area.

Grace: Yeah. I think one of the biggest misconceptions is that in order to feel better, you have to overhaul your life. That you have to make these drastic life changes, but actually think about those bookends. How are you starting the day and how are you ending the day? That is so key when it comes to. Your energy, but also [00:23:00] that feeling of having space for yourself.

We often think, okay, if I've given two hours to work, I need the same amount of time for myself. You actually just sometimes need two minutes, five minutes to just check in, reset, go do something different, and then you'll feel better. The, from a nutrition perspective, I will always say it's around are you feeling yourself enough, so eating consistently, and are you balancing your blood sugar?

When it comes to focus energy, particularly in high performing environments, blood sugar is such a cause of extra stress, and we want to minimize any extra source of stress that actually are within our control. So it is making sure that you are eating enough protein, getting some fiber in there, and having healthy fats in each of your plates when you can.

When you build, have a meal formula that works for you, that compounds because not only does it make you feel better energetically, your digestion is better, your focus is better, but mentally as well, you [00:24:00] take that load off you that so often the decision fatigue around food is so strong, particularly when you are busy and you're just like, I don't even know what I want to eat.

When you have a go-to formula, that very small change of like understanding, okay, this is what works for me, takes that decision fatigue out and that builds and builds with time and understanding your body. I think another one similar to the bookends would be to actually create space. In your day, it can be five minutes, but when you are working, say you finish a task, can that be your signal that you go, say you've been sat at your laptop, can you get up and go look out of a window for five minutes?

Can you actually. Go read a book, do something very different to what you were doing. A lot of people think about circadian rhythm, so that's our body's internal clock. It runs every 24 hours, but we also have these smaller cycles called ultradian rhythms, and there's a [00:25:00] power, powerful research around we're only supposed to focus for.

Around. On average it's 90 minutes. That is when the brain can be very efficient, focusing really well performing optimally. But at the end of those 90 minutes, if we think about all of the processes your brain is having to go through, there's a lot of waste that builds up. And ultimately, if we push through and we just try and work for long stent of time without breaks, the brain is not refreshing.

It's not restarting. And so actually over time, your productivity, the focus, the work product dwindles because we are not giving our brain that space to actually reset process everything it's gone through and come back stronger. And that's the same. So that's on the brain level, but the body too, those five, 10 minutes that you take to take a break.

Over time you, it is just that reset. Like I can now come back stronger because I've given myself the space. But we have this mentality of push through. It doesn't make you more productive. And I think the, one of the best things law taught me is that because we had to time record everything, [00:26:00]you know how long a task is supposed to take, but how long it has actually taken you.

And when you see that on a clock that a piece of research took six hours and probably could have only taken three, you have this real realization of God, I've not been productive here. And that was not from not wanting to do the work, it's just I actually tried to push through and I couldn't keep that focus there.

So it's those small things of thinking about your nutrition, thinking about the spaces in the day. And I think natural light is one that I'll always come back to because for energy, your mood, it just makes the biggest difference in the world. If you can build those into your day, it really changes it.

Arthur: and what we don't have an idea on is what's going through other people's brains. I think that there's call of research around how much energy the brain uses. Do you look into this with clients and what they're thinking about because it's so clear when people are stressed and anxious that their energy just [00:27:00] goes.

Do you have mechanisms that you suggest to people to have more control over their thinking? It's so interesting that you're talking about giving your brain. Breaks. And, meditation for example, how that impact impacts people. It's, there's a lot of research and how impactful that can be.

Grace: definitely. And a lot of our worries, a lot of our fears are just thoughts. They're not reality. They come from the millions of thoughts we're having in our head every single day. And. A way that I'm a big fan of journaling and not a sit down for half an hour and write everything that you are feeling, but actually if you feel a bit of angst coming up or you're not quite sure about something, get a pen and paper out.

Or if like just the notes on your phone and ask yourself, how am I feeling? You can use a number scale like rate yourself zero to 10. How am I feeling? What is my energy? And then ask why. And the first time clients try this, nothing will come up. Particularly if you are very used to just being [00:28:00] that push through go go mentality.

But the more you ask yourself, how am I feeling? Why the more is going to come up. And that is how you then start bringing awareness, self-awareness and understanding your patterns behind things is really powerful. And you said earlier around guilt. I think guilt is something that. Is we put it on ourselves.

Guilt doesn't come from someone else. Guilt comes from I feel guilty because I took time for myself. For example, something I had when I was caring, I felt I never really left the house because I did. I felt too guilty to have the two hours with some friends because I was like, no, I need to be at home to make sure my mom is okay.

Probably the best thing I could have done was taken those two hours because all that ended up happening. Full disclosure, was my mom and I was exhausted and very on edge. She might have said something, I've probably snapped and then she's burst into tears. Probably would've been better if I'd gone out for those two hours.

And the guilt we put on ourselves is. A very much, it's something that comes up a lot in [00:29:00]people's thoughts that actually drains a lot of the energy side of things. But if you can get them out onto paper, that physical act is I always say it's like taking it out of your brain because then your brain doesn't need to remember it, put it down on paper and you start understanding.

You can piece things together more clearly and understand where these thoughts are coming from. And I think when it comes to being busy and understanding what is coming up for you, what's blocking you, very often it's things like perfectionism, feeling like you don't have enough time, feeling like you're not allowed to do something.

The guilt, these things play on your mind and they build and they get bigger than they actually are. If you say it out loud, once you've written it down and you read it out loud to yourself, you'll realize how small that thing is, and that actually, there's so much you can do to combat it, but it takes getting it out first.

And that could be. I say to some clients who are like, I just don't really like journaling. I'm like, record a voice note on your phone. Everyone has the voice memo app on their phone. [00:30:00] Record a voice note. It doesn't go anywhere, but you get it out and you actually get to say it out loud, which is really powerful.

Arthur: there was an exercise which is write out 50 things you want, and the big things. It doesn't seem to be very effective on, it's more the really subtle, small thing. So it could be , I want to make my walk this morning slightly nicer, or I want to make this person feel special, or I want to maybe add something to a room.

There's something around that's quite powerful. Do you have any views on that? Do you relate to that? And I guess it's, there's a few things there. Really what, one, putting agency on themselves, but really awareness and linking to your, to what you're talking about.

Grace: Definitely and. Those promises you make to yourself when you stick to it. That's how you build confidence. One of the biggest wins, so to speak, that is not spoken about when you start this work is the confidence that you build. You come to work on your stress, to improve your gut health, to find a [00:31:00] balance, to feel like you can balance work and life, whatever it is, that's your goal.

But the biggest result I see is how confident. My clients feel after the time working together because they suddenly are prioritizing themselves. They've made, that's why list like that I love because ultimately you put it down on paper and when you follow through on it, you start to build this actual belief and understanding that actually you can put yourself first and you are important.

And the confidence that then comes from that trickles into everything. It trickles into how you walk into a room, the opportunities you put yourself up for how you speak about yourself, all things that actually, if we think about career success, whether you're an entrepreneur, whether you're in corporate, those traits are so important and very often are the things that we envy or lu after.

In other people we're like, God, how are they so confident? Confidence is not. You're not born with it or not like you either. It's not that you don't have it or have it, it's a skill that you build over time. It's a trait. And one of the [00:32:00] most powerful ways to do that is to stick to the little promises. And I think lists like that and really getting clear on, as I said at the start, having your direction, knowing what it is you want, and then having a path to get there.

And that can mean breaking some things down into smaller pieces. And when you then stick to those, so you said around making someone feel special. When you stick to that, not only does it make that person feel good, you feel great, and then you want to do it again, you want to do something else. And it's that compound, as you said, it builds and builds.

And I think confidence is something that, again, when we're in that constant high alert state, confidence is the first thing to go out the window because it's not important. I did a workshop recently with a brand all around confidence because they were coming at it from, okay, how do we build confidence through clothes?

And I was coming at it from, okay, we have the clothes and that's giving you that real boost. How do we also make it something natural? You can't naturally feel feelings like [00:33:00] confidence and walking into a room and knowing what you want. If you're stressed, ultimately your body's not gonna give you that emotion.

And I think those lists are a really beautiful way to start that journey because it means you get to see, oh, what is it that I do want? Get curious. And I always say there's a stage between a habit and like nothing. So you, there's a, there's an experiment experimentation stage. Very often we're like, this is gonna be my new habit and I'm gonna stick to it for three months.

But we miss the fun of experimenting with things and that comes before the habit. Like experiment with different things and then find the thing. You want to make a habit. Some experiments are going to go wrong. You're not gonna enjoy them, it's not gonna be for you or you do it, it makes you more stressed.

There's going to be things that don't work for you that might work for other people. Some people find breath work so unsettling and it's not right for them. Other people find it very difficult to meditate, but they can sit and journal when you experiment with all these different things. Same with foods.

Some people do really [00:34:00] well off a more high carb diet actually, that really suits their blood sugar. Other people, it completely tanks them. And so experimenting, getting curious about these things is, yeah, very fascinating. And I think that's how you start to learn your body, make those small promises that you commit to, you build confidence, and that trickles into so many different areas of how you're feeling.

Arthur: I, you are touching on how different things work for different people. I love the anecdote and how you've, you talk about clothing and how that can bring confidence to people. Can you think of some things that give you confidence that maybe were surprising or give other people confidence.

Grace: I think for me, I, so actually, I hated public speaking when I was in law. If someone asked me to give a presentation, even to speak up in a meeting, I would be so anxious about it for days. And then starting this business, a lot of what I do is corporate [00:35:00] workshops. I speak at events, and even speaking on podcasts, it's my favorite thing to do is now speaking whether it's in front of people, one to one, like I have found.

A confidence in that I never thought was there. And that came from building that safety. I could not see that actually I was able to do it because I was just so one track mind focused on literally what's in front of me and freak out about anything new. Speaking in a meeting. It's not something you do every day or giving a presentation.

So that was just like too much for my nervous system. And so for me, I think that's where I saw it very personally in, I've had one client who recently she. When you've had a lot of she's had a lot of health struggles and you really lose your confidence in that it knocks you. You feel like your body is always against you and through a lot of nervous system regulation, we've really rebuilt her diet.

She's able to include so many more foods and linking it to [00:36:00] clothes. She sent me a picture the other day with, she always wears black 'cause she was like, I don't want to be seen black's my like comfort blanket. And she sent me a picture of a dress that she bought that is floral beautiful, like the most beautiful summer dress, and she was like, I'm not ready to wear this yet, but I've bought it for when I am three months ago.

She would never have had the sort of even thought process or the capacity to be able to think about buying that dress. That wouldn't have been in her sort of realm of, okay, what is possible. The fact that she bought that is like the biggest statement of I'm going to get there as a belief in yourself and that comes from.

Building trust in yourself, building that safety, putting yourself first and actually realizing that agency piece is really important. And when you start to take control and not let, I think through my mom and losing her, you start to realize that there are so many things that can come against you and that can literally take, my mom [00:37:00] was so vibrant.

She had such a warm energy, and within the space of months, she couldn't do anything from her for herself. Her life was stripped down to sitting in a chair watching TV all day, and that was all she could do. Or talking to one of us. There was no going out. There was no sort of just jumping in the car. She used to drive everywhere, drive miles and miles, see my brothers at school like, and that was all taken away.

And when you see that, you're like, okay, I want to now take control of my life as much as possible and really use that to my advantage.

Arthur: there's a lot to life. If someone asks you you've got, 50 years left, how would you explain what you want from that time? And part of that can be fine, like the funnel, holiday, et cetera, but, how do you in your view, optimize your, it's the, it's your morning walk to work, for example.

It's, your, like getting on the tube. Do you think that, we should be focusing on those moments more?

Grace: for me it's how do you feel while you do those things? [00:38:00] So the true wellness to me is being able to. Do those lovely things, whether it's going on a walk in the park, taking your dog out, going on holiday, jumping on a plane, or sitting at your desk and doing a job, but still feel peaceful, calm, in control, and not like your day is controlling you.

And for me, when you find that level of peace and calm and serenity around what you are doing, knowing that you're not gonna love everything, you're not gonna be happy every single moment of the day. But if your baseline feeling is joy and peace, that for me is everything. It doesn't matter what you are doing.

And if you can feel as happy jumping on a plane and going on an incredible trip as you can wake up in the morning and seeing a sunrise. Or even waking up and it just being a sunny day. It's currently thunderstorms outside when you can wake up and you see the sun and that makes you as happy.

That for [00:39:00] me is like true wellbeing and true wellness in the sense of we can all strive for the external. And I use, I always also use the example of clothes here. I love buying nice things like material items are something that I'll always take a lot of joy from. I probably get that from my mom who was a handbag addict and that's definitely been passed down and so I'm never one to say that the external things, whether it's something you buy and experience whatever, is not important.

They fully are, but that shouldn't be the thing that you chase to give you the happiness. The happiness comes from yourself and the peace comes first. And yeah, just feeling at peace in your choices and content is my ultimate vision for anyone that I work with, for anyone I speak to, for myself.

And it really is. It's not changing the output. It's not changing what you do, but changing how you feel while doing it. 'cause we can all do it. Stressed, exhausted, but actually,

Arthur: God, and a lot of different moments. You touched on the big goals that people [00:40:00] have and then also the small stuff and changing their appreciation for, and their ability to execute. So you know your lives. Force you to learn a lot and figure a lot out, and you really throw your time care to other people in trying to help them on their journey.

That's no doubt massively changed. And your perception of what you want from a life partner and who you want, what you want from those that you are surrounded by. Talk to us about that and perhaps something a former, I'm thinking about as like undervalued currencies or things that we don't necessarily people don't, aren't necessarily straight to talk about, but that are clear to you that they're very much something that should be talked more about.

Grace: Yeah, I think, do you know, as someone that is like dating and it's such a whirlwind of a world ultimately, whether it's friendships, [00:41:00] romantic relationships, business relationships, asking yourself and being very honest about how does that person make you feel? If you feel slightly on edge around someone or you're worrying about what they're doing or you are not quite sure about a decision they might make, if you can't fully trust them, then they're not your person.

That's not to say they're a bad person, but everyone has different energies and energies match or they don't match, and I am a big believer that. We are not all for everyone. And actually when you can get really honest about that of I felt a bit off around that person. And it can be in business, it can be in friends, it can be in so many different sort of realms of life.

That is one of the biggest things. And knowing that someone will be there for you in the good and the bad again works in any situation. But something that the friends that were there for me during those three years that were there for me after my mom passing away, they are my ride and dies because I know that in the darkest times, [00:42:00] they stood by me for three years.

They didn't expect me to be happy. Jolly to make them laugh. And the same comes when you're thinking about life partner. When you're thinking about relationship. Things are not always going to be sunshine and roses. There are going to be times that are tough and having that trust and full conviction that's actually, that person will be there for you and can hold you.

Especially if you are someone that holds a lot for other people. There will be a time when you need it to be the other way around, and I think that's a quality that I look for across the board. Same in business as well. Like I, there are things that if they don't feel like a full yes, that I'm not gonna go for them because energetically there'll be something off there.

And again, like we spoke about a lot today. I think that really takes being honest with yourself and actually stopping the autopilot. Get off the hamster wheel, get off the auto. Oh yeah, he looks great on paper. And actually take a step back and be like, but how did that [00:43:00] make me feel? Did I feel safe?

Did I feel like I could be myself? Did I feel, did I try and hide part of me? Did I actually not admit something? The story I always tell is I ended up going on a day and telling someone that I had an infrared sauna in my flat that looks like a tent that your head sticks out the top of. I didn't care.

'cause it was like, do you know what? That's just me. It's batshit crazy. But that is like a part of me. But we so often hide those things to fit in the perfect mold. If you can be yourself around someone, then that means a lot. Again, no matter the situation or setting that you're in.

Arthur: I, love that different cultures have different propensities for people to talk about certain things . What cultures or attitudes are you like, whoa, we need way more of that, or things that you generally want people to behave in a certain way.

Grace: Oh, I just wish we were more open. I wish it was the norm to say that you are not okay. It was that it was actually, people took the [00:44:00] time for themselves that they needed. If you don't want to go to a plan that's saying no actually isn't a bad thing. If you don't have capacity to take on extra work that you say that, and actually someone might then go, do you know what Grace?

You do have the capacity and you have a reality check or someone understands it. And I think there's a real, we are very closed. We are very. Back to that perfectionism side. We never want to show weakness. And I will say this is like still a huge work in progress for myself because I find it very hard to admit that maybe something is too much or I don't have time for something or to admit a flaw.

But I think the more we can do that, the more human you bring into a relationship, a conversation, and that's what's so often missing. That real like human connection. It's an incredible study around loneliness that ultimately it is more detrimental to health than smoking 15 cigarettes a day. And that epidemic is only getting worse and [00:45:00] worse As we get more addicted to things like social media and speaking to people through screens rather than seeing them in real life, the more we can bring that human connection, whether that is.

You actually get more, you release more oxytocin when you speak to someone on a phone or through a voice note than you do through a message. So there's different scales to this. Obviously the best thing is to see one someone in person. But if that's not possible, can you send a voice note? Can you call them and be open about how you're feeling?

'cause the more that we, I always say restriction is not just about, oh, I restrict a certain food, I don't eat dairy. Restriction comes. It's a physical feeling. If you think about restriction in the body, your whole body tenses, which means you're feeling stressed. Your body is not free. And just like letting things like the thoughts aren't going to flow, everything is tense.

And when we stay in that tense feeling, you're not gonna share, you're not gonna be open, you're not gonna be yourself.

Arthur: A lot of amazing views there.

sometimes why, one can't connect with certain people for various reasons. Maybe, one is working in a really [00:46:00] remote place. How do you advise people to have that connection? And perhaps you really look up to some societies that function or maybe it's groups of people that meet in a certain way.

Grace: Do you know, I think I, being in London, like we are so lucky with how many things we have available to us to build connections, whether that's through communities, through, there's so many things now of like walking communities, running clubs, just going to the gym, going for coffee, and actually having a conversation with the person next to you.

But I think. People can do that and actually still feel very lonely because if you are not connecting with people that are really on your level that you actually feel like are your people, it's not the same level of connection. It can give you a little bit of a boost. There's nothing better than smiling at someone on the street and them smiling back and you're like, oh, that was actually really lovely.

Or saying thank you to someone that holds the door open for you. But then [00:47:00] the next level of connection is actually do you have people around you that lift you up? And when you have that, it will really change your energy and it will really change how you feel going into the week. I always say with a lot of clients who are very type A driven, they are working so hard.

They've nailed their habits, they've nailed their routines. The biggest prescription I will give them is go for dinner with your friends on Friday night or Saturday, or whatever it is. Go for brunch on Saturday. Go for Sunday lunch plan one meal in that week. That's just gonna mean you let go and you laugh because that's the connection we need.

And if you can't do that, if you are somewhere remote, how can you recreate it? We had what, the years of COVID where we were not seeing people, but somehow we didn't. There was a lot of loneliness, but we also found ways to connect with people. And that could be through calling your best friend and having a FaceTime.

We are both eating dinner. If you're in different countries, it could be sending her a [00:48:00] voice note because you've just suddenly thought of her and something's made you laugh. I have no doubt that when she listens that she will laugh and then she will feel great too. But it's getting creative of ways of actually what makes me feel good if I receive it, and how can I give that to other people and know that you are going to get that back as well.

And if those, if you don't necessarily have those people. Find places that you can go to things that you love and actually just pluck up a conversation with someone. I, one of my closest friends now is someone that I met. We went on a walk in January that was like set up by the girl that I do Pilates with.

Didn't know anyone. It was a rainy January morning. She is now one of my closest friends because we were just so similar and like on the same level with so many different things. And she's become a very close friend. And that was a connection that I would never have expected to have made. But so often we are like, oh, I'm past 21.

I'm not gonna make new friends. Actually, you can make incredible friends any single day of the week and bringing that connection [00:49:00] whenever you want. And to take it even deeper if you really feel lonely, how disconnected do you feel from yourself If you cannot just sit at home and actually feel very content with being by yourself.

Being able to say it is you want to write that list of the 50 things you want to do or you want to watch something silly on tv. If you can't find true, like peace and joy in that question, how go, you are because definition of being in your parasympathetic is actually being able to just sit and do nothing.

So yourself can also be, being content in yourself is also important.

Arthur: Okay. A bit of homework for people if they want it. You touched on how we feel which makes me think about how people can use lists to, write out things they want to feel. What are the buckets of in which you would give people for things that they would, that they want generally.

And the first one we've got is feelings. So people could write down 20 feelings. They wanna feel.

Grace: I would always [00:50:00] say, because we have a really bad range of vocabulary for feelings. We think happy, sad, angry, upset, like we have very small or like a very small list of words that we connect to when it comes to emotions, but there are so many more emotions in vocabulary that we could be using.

So I will always say, get up a list of. Emotions, just Google it, emotions that you can feel and pick out five that really resonate with you and get, rather than having a list of like loads and lows, just pick out five that you are. Like, if I could feel one of those every day, ideally all five, but if I could feel those every day, I would be happy.

And then within that, so you then want to think about the buckets? It's all quite personal, but like for me, my words will always be joy, abundance, love, and peace. Those are like the four that I will always come back to. And probably health I would throw in there as well. And within those, it's okay, [00:51:00] in relationships, in my work, in family, in finances.

In living. So I put sort of travel experiences, things that I want to go through life and sort of experience in that way. In those buckets, how do you bring those emotions in? So have the emotions at the top and then think about the different areas of your life, but the ones that are important for you, because where you live might not be something that is important for you.

Your career might not be something that actually you really want to focus on. So this might change with the seasons, it changes with the time. But then bring in goals, bring in like how can I bring in that joy to my work? How can I make something a little bit different to find that joy again? Actually I'm really interested in X topic.

How can I put myself up to be on that team to work with them? And it's not something that you're gonna get necessarily in the next week or month. It might be years in the making, but you have that goal and that vision there. And that's very powerful. It's why I included health in there because I think [00:52:00]when we think about those feelings, we often go.

So we always forget the, we go on the material side and we forget actually the health side of things, like what is it that's going to serve us to get there? That's when it's okay, I know that I want to bring in more movement to my day in order to have the strength to chase my children around the garden, which I know makes me really happy.

There's so many different ways it all links, but have the buckets. Just get a sheet of paper. Nothing will come the first time you do it, or maybe only a few things will, but the more you think about it, you'll end up writing pages and pages as you go through.

Arthur: if energy is partly a product of purpose. And purpose can be hard to find. And it seems that you just, having a sense of self-worth is such a main pillar to even get near purpose. Is there a tool or like a quick exercise you get people to do to create a sense of self value?

It seems like it's a currency that's not really focused on for people in general.

Grace: Yeah. [00:53:00] Do you know, for me it comes back to that confidence piece of what are you, what promises are you letting slide and what are you sticking to? Because the more you let things slide, the more you lose your value because you ultimately are telling yourself that you don't stick to the things that you told yourself you would do.

And that's a really. It knocks you very far. There's something called Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs that ultimately you have self-actualization at the top, and that's like you're reaching your ultimate potential. But in order to get there, you have to go through the other, a pyramid, you have to go through the other stages.

And right at the bottom is your physical foundations. It's your, how are you fueling yourself, it's the safety in that angle. Then come things like confidence, those start building, and that's how you get to that sort of key point of self-actualization. But we have to build those foundations first, and a lot of that comes down to what promises are you making and what are you not sticking to when you start building those, where are your internal foundations?

Where actually do you [00:54:00] know you are letting yourself slide in the pursuit of finishing something on time versus, okay, that's okay to do, but how do you correct it in other areas? Because if you are always putting yourself last, that value's not gonna be there. And so actually a lot of the. When a client, when we've created a plan together and then they come back next week and be like, yeah, I found that really hard to stick to.

When we delve into it, it's because they ultimately didn't feel it was a priority. They were like, I knew I wanted to do it, but I didn't make it. What I like that make it that important. It's why didn't you? And if we think about it so often, it's because actually maybe it's not the right goal.

And that's how you can start to see with that last exercise, if something's not sticking, it might not, it might just not be for you. And it might be that actually your energy is being directed elsewhere and we start getting it a whole process value, self value. You can't, there's no one quick fix to suddenly find it.

Stick to the Dilla promises, anything's not sticking. Maybe that's not for you. Try something new, bring in [00:55:00] that experiment. But it's very, it's difficult to snap your fingers and be like, you are now gonna have the value, but you have to decide you want it. That's also another thing. Very often we tell ourselves, oh, I really want that promotion.

But actually, if you don't fully, if you don't have a full body, yes, you're gonna find lots of different ways to self-sabotage. If you don't really want to go on a run, your brain will find a million ways to stop you from going on a run. If you don't want to eat that green soup that you made, you'll also find a million reasons not to do it.

So you have to decide what you want and then stick to it. That's how you build the confidence. Self value comes through that as well, but then underlying that, having those internal foundations there,

Arthur: And you've got a course called the Foundations, haven't you? And then ano another one. Talk to us about the, those courses and what they offer people.

Grace: Yeah, so the Foundations is a guide that basically just delving into the key things that you really want to focus on when it comes to your health. Very [00:56:00] simple practices is a 10 day challenge of little things that you can do each day to help support your digestion and your energy. So I think one of the challenges is that it's just small as adding a pinch of salt to your water in the morning because very few of us are hydrating properly, and if we are dehydrated, it's very hard to focus your energy drops.

So that is a very good starting point. If you're like, I have no idea where to go with these internal foundations. I always say Start there. And then my other program is the rhythm code, and this is where we're taking those foundations and delving into a whole lot more, which is all around understanding.

The natural rhythms that our body is built to thrive on and to operate on. So we've become so disconnected from actually where true energy comes from, how metabolism works, what safety means in the body, and we are just pushing through and we keep on adding different habits without understanding whether they are working for us.

So it's an eight week program where we [00:57:00] delve into all of those different topics, metabolism, bloating, blood sugar, thyroid. We're going into all of it and with a personalized element of what as well through the coaching side. So it's a real deep dive into all of that. Just to understand, I always say.

We always try to do without knowing why, but we actually sometimes the why and the learning needs to come first because then the habits naturally follow as opposed to trying to force something that you're like, why am I doing this? What is the point? It's only gonna be important if you understand why you want to do it and you have intention behind it.

Intentions are so key. So yeah, that's the rhythm code. I also have a training on confidence that is a lot about what we spoke about building safety and budding those Yeah, foundations for confidence as well.

Arthur: And you worked with a you worked with a big brand. Can we say which brand that is, or.

Grace: yeah. Yeah. So the confidence trainings was with Dior, which was a real, actually a very full circle moment. So I had worn, [00:58:00] I'd bought a Dior jacket to wear to my mom's funeral, and it is, that jacket is what got me into my mom's funeral that day. Like it was. The putting that on, it was like I can now face what is in front of me, which meant walking into a church full of people that loved my mom and somehow we had to walk in behind a coffin and I knew that was going to be impossible, but the jacket gave me this.

I've got this feeling. And so to then work with them to bring this training to really, we created it together from a sense of like, where do women get confidence from? How does it change how we feel and what are the things we can do to really build that? It was a really sort of full circle, very beautiful moment.

So more to come this year together as well, which will be very exciting.

Arthur: we were talking earlier about currencies that, we need to focus on confidence water. What a beautiful one that people can get from you. So we are now gonna jump into,

Grace: Oh no.

Arthur: the [00:59:00] quickfire questions. Three things You get Joy from

Grace: waking up to a sunny day Nancy, my dog, throwing a toy around her head and seeing a pink sky.

Arthur: A mantra you want to embrace now would be

Grace: let go. I'm very always wanting to hold on to control fear, but when you let go and trust the process, that's really what I'm trying to lean into more of.

Arthur: one unusual thing that gives you pleasure.

Grace: terrible tv, keeping up with Kardashians. It shouldn't make, it shouldn't make me as happy as it does,

Arthur: a favorite film, book, or artist that isn't obvious,

Grace: a favorite book recently I mentioned it to you, is Finding Your North Star by Martha Beck. I think it's a really beautiful written, beautifully written book. That is one I think I'll come back to at different stages of my life and probably take something different from it every single time.

Arthur: Best advice you've ever received?

Grace: a friend, when my mom was diagnosed, my friend, she is a practicing Muslim, and she told me that [01:00:00] is in the Quran. It says that God will only throw the challenges that he knows you can face. And whether you are religious, not religious, spiritual, whatever, you lean towards it, is something I came back to time and time again and took so much comfort from knowing that ultimately every challenge what I was being dealt with, I was going to be able to handle.

And there was going to be something that came, a lesson that came from it. And it meant I didn't hide away from that and feel like the world was against me. And I think it's something that has really stuck with me ever since. So anything, anytime something comes up, I have this deep trust of something I know I'm supposed to go through this and I know I can handle it, which yeah, meant a lot in that time and it still does now.

Arthur: Something you want to learn more about?

Grace: Probably ai because having been a lawyer, we were not allowed to touch anything to do with ai. I left law and it, something was like everyone was, I didn't even know what CHATT PT was. So I think I've got a long way to [01:01:00] go, even understanding how it works and what it is, that's one definitely.

Arthur: H how do you get over a tough meeting or moment or in general?

Grace: put it into perspective. I think understand why it came up. Was it tough? Because it triggered you in some way? Did it upset me? Was it stressful? And not hold onto it? Get it out. Whether you need to rant about it to a friend, you need to journal on it. You need to voice note yourself. All of those things we've spoken about.

But yeah, get it out. Don't hold onto it and let yourself feel frustrated about it and then understand why, but let the feeling come first.

Arthur: You can add one thing to your bucket list. Now, what would it be?

Grace: I dunno if it counts as a bucket list thing, but I am desperate to go back to Martha's Vineyard, which is somewhere we went to when we were very little growing up and it's one of those trips. I want to pair that with Utah and Nashville and just, they were places that my mom really [01:02:00] wanted to go back to.

So do that for her. I think that's next on my list,

Arthur: The world works in a certain way. What would you want to change about it if you could change one thing?

Grace: how negative we go to first. We always go to, we think the worst. We think it's a surprise when something good happens. I wish that we could all see the positives before we see the negatives.

Arthur: Grace, thank you so much for today. It's been such a pleasure. And we're very fortunate to have you tell your story and be so open. I definitely, it's definitely very encouraging when others are open encourages other people to be so open and thank you so much,

Grace: thank you for having me. It's been such a fun conversation,