Andy Kalli
Arthur Lonsdale (0:20.646)
Yes, exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Arthur Lonsdale (0:29.480)
Yeah.
Arthur Lonsdale (0:37.417)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Andy (0:41.314)
Okay, cool. You fire away.
Arthur Lonsdale (0:44.180)
Here we go. Here we go.
Arthur Lonsdale (0:52.306)
Andy, welcome to the Collective Institute of Ideas. It's such a privilege to have you on and ⁓ here to inspire people. You've got an incredible story and ⁓ spend all your time helping people at the minute with addiction. ⁓ How ⁓ did your story with drugs start? ⁓
Andy (1:16.770)
Okay, ⁓ in the subsequent years in my recovery, I learned a lot about myself ⁓ and I had to reflect on my past. So it does start at the beginning and everything I'm doing today is really all the experience and I focus a lot on in this treatment center and my team as well of lived experience. I think it's really important that we share our lived experience to
you know, our clients that come into rehab. And it does start at the beginning, you know, and everybody that I look after today, you know, have various backgrounds, different backgrounds, you know, it could be, you could say normal, good upbringings, cultures, mum, dad, children, but some people have a harder background from not having a mother and father or
you know, being abused as children, violence, know, various, various, so many stories and everyone has a different story to tell. But there's one link ⁓ and the similarity with all of us is we got the illness, which is our addiction, you know, and it affected us. And then we as addicts, ⁓ and that includes alcoholics because it's an addiction. It could be from food.
to gambling, know, any form of addiction and ⁓ that makes your life unmanageable. And we, the similarity between all of us is we cannot ⁓ stop this addiction until we do. ⁓ And we always have the question, you know, why me? You know, why me? Why? You know, why me? ⁓ And that was one of the questions I had ⁓ for myself.
for many years. ⁓ really, yeah, I mean, going backwards. ⁓
Andy (3:19.246)
I was born to Greek Cypriot immigrants that came in the late 50s to London. My mother and father met in London actually. My mum was 16, my father 18. They got married. I was born in Camden Town, 1961. And my early recollection is my dad had a calf.
in ⁓ Edmonton, North London. ⁓ It was called a transport cafe. Back in the 60s, ⁓ old movies would say jukebox and bikers coming in and lorry drivers. ⁓ We had a small cafe. We didn't have much money. ⁓ But mum and dad worked very hard. ⁓ Didn't really have much time with them. We didn't even have a bathroom. It was a two room flat above the shop.
⁓ I remember ⁓ once a week mum bathed us in the ⁓ tin bath, ⁓ outside toilet. ⁓ So was basically, yeah, we were poor, but they worked hard. ⁓ So from about five, six years old, I was being looked after by an English family. I'm not gonna go into too much detail, but there was a bit of abuse there from the son who was my dad's friend.
⁓ the experience of being in a room like spending the, on the after school weekends, ⁓ being looked after by this family. ⁓ the, ⁓ you know, being around, you know, pool magazines, for example, in those days, wasn't videos or phones or online. It was, ⁓ you know,
magazines that other kids would be playing or reading Beano or whatever the magazines were. I'd be reading porn magazines, know, as a five year old, six year old. That's what I can remember. ⁓ The abuse ⁓ was ⁓ more touching and stuff like that. a bit, you know, it is what it is, you know. ⁓ Did it affect me?
Andy (5:46.671)
I suppose it did. Did I tell anybody no? I didn't actually share anything of this experience to my family until about, I don't know, 15 years ago, something like that. And that was only because the protagonist involved, the abuser, was found dead for abusing another child.
So, yeah, that's when it all came back up. It came up again. But my upbringing at school was I was quite good at school, not academically, but was into sports. I was a football captain, the rugby captain. I was always good at speaking. I had a couple of close friends. But, you know, whereas other kids had girlfriends, I never did.
And ⁓ I think ⁓ in my early teens, ⁓ you know, I lost my virginity, but I've never had ⁓ a girlfriend. I had an older brother, ⁓ Chris, who is four years older than me. was tall, good looking, always had girlfriends, you know. ⁓ I was always, he was not really close to me. ⁓ He was older, which is understandable. So I spent a lot of time on my own as a kid. ⁓
From about seven years old, I ⁓ went to church, the English church. ⁓ I was a server at the church. You know, we're Greek Cypriot, we're Greek Orthodox, you know, we've Greek holiday, Easter, Christmas, very religious. ⁓ My parents, you know, ⁓ were ⁓ all about that. ⁓ But it wasn't drummed in on us. ⁓ But the English church, I got solace out of it, you know?
I was very much into religion, I used to pray every night. And I think it might have been instigated to what happened to me a few years earlier ⁓ as a child. ⁓ So I used to pray every night actually. ⁓ It's weird really how things change in life. So we roll on. ⁓ In my teens, my big ambition in life was to become a footballer. I was a good semi-pro, youth. ⁓
Andy (8:9.230)
You know, I played in the FA Cup when I was 15, for example, for Bognery just town FC. So I was pretty, you know, not bad. I did a few trials here and there for Portsmouth Brighton. Never quite made it. And my dad was, you know, my hero, really, my dad. So I used to spend a lot of time with dad. He was a tough Greek guy. know, mum, I never really had time for mum.
or I felt that maybe I had resentments and having looked at my past there was resentments, having, you know, reflected on my past, I did resent my mum most probably for leaving me with that family, you know. But again, I never shared that. So teenage years, like school years was okay. I wasn't a bad kid. I used to always pick on the bullies, so.
I was quite a good fighter. I wasn't someone to mess with ⁓ when it came to protecting people. ⁓ So I'd always go to the bully who'd bully one of the kids and I'd sort of confront them and have a fight with them most probably. ⁓ But teachers liked me. Yeah, was alright. So sport was really my ⁓ big thing. ⁓ Like I said, mum and dad.
was working all the time. ended up living, growing up in, from about 10 years old I moved to Bognorigi, Sussex. And in those days it was very white English, Bognorigi. We had a restaurant on the seafront. That's when dad started earning some money. It was pretty good. I used to work in the restaurant for about, you know, summer holidays. So I learned, you know, I learned.
from mum and dad, how they worked the restaurant. And my ambition was, you know, if I wasn't going to become a footballer, I don't, you know, would want to become a chef and own restaurants like my mum and dad. So at 16, I left school, went to college to become, to study, become a chef. But after a year, I didn't really want to carry on because I felt I knew more than the lecturers, you know.
Andy (10:38.254)
⁓ because I grew up in the business. So ⁓ I ⁓ got a job in the Savoy Hotel in London. So I left home at 16, went to London. And I'm not going to keep repeating this, but I'm going to tell you now, you know, I was all over the place. I was never content with one thing. I could never be happy with one thing. I was always changing my mind, always ⁓ trying something, a job.
or college or you know when I went to London I lasted what 10 months at the Savoy and then a friend of mine offered me a job in Hatton Garden a friend of my cousin so it was like from one place to the other and this has been a pattern of my life my whole life right but at that time I wasn't a drinker I never did drugs you know I never started there's a lot of addicts start very young so I never did I was never smoked
I was very, yeah, I was a hard worker though. I was a hard worker. But we rolled on up until I'm 18 and 17 really actually. And I said to my dad, I wanna get married. And in those days in the late 70s, early 80s, there was sort of arranged marriage, only through, it wasn't like other cultures, they arranged marriages.
But we were similar in a way, the Greek Cypriots. So, ⁓ it just so I met this girl who was my dad's best friend's daughter. They had a lot of money. So, it took the big jump. I met her in the October ⁓ and married her the following March in 1980. ⁓ Married. Had everything. Had a house fully paid for. ⁓ I didn't really work at the time I got married.
because I again from going back to Bogno Regis from London ⁓ back to ⁓ London where I with my fiance and then my wife ⁓ football was again still my passion yeah I was a very good semi-pro local teams in London ⁓ but then ⁓ you know I thought I needed to do something so I opened my first restaurant at 19 ⁓
Andy (13:4.142)
My dad came over from where he was in Sussex. I said, Dad, come and join me in this restaurant I'm going to get. And he moved everything from Sussex to London. And that's where it began. So was good at, my business brain was good, making money was good. I was good at whatever I applied myself to. So by the time I was 23, I had...
three beautiful children. ⁓ had ⁓ Helen Maldis, Tony, my second, and Maria, my youngest. ⁓ And yeah, things were good. ⁓ Things were really good. ⁓ But I still wasn't content. I wasn't content and I wasn't happy. ⁓ The restaurant went really well. had my first one was in Chantzbury Lane, ⁓ Central London, but then with dad being involved.
⁓ his accountant sort of ⁓ nicked our money and we got you know the landlord you know took us to court ⁓ and we were going to be on the verge of declaring bankruptcy because of my dad making a mistake with money so we had to sell that business which was a little gold mine I actually wanted to buy the freehold at the time which you know
I really wanted but again I was in awe of my dad and I was still ⁓ scared to make mistakes and I had my father in awe as well so we sold it, ⁓ I had a bit of ⁓ cash behind ⁓ I had a bit of cash and spent about six months to a year not working but again I spent a lot of time with my children playing football as well ⁓ but I still wasn't happy. I bought another restaurant in ⁓ the Barbican.
I got my brother involved through the request of my mum, ⁓ wanting my brother involved, my older brother Chris, who never really got on, but because of my good nature, I thought give him a chance. ⁓ And then ⁓ hard work. My brother didn't really, wasn't a work, he didn't really like the restaurants. So he didn't really get on ⁓ in the business. So in those years, in those subsequent years, I'm now around about 25, 26, I...
Andy (15:30.787)
was ⁓ I was invited to go and play in Cyprus professionally, which I did. I left my kids at home. I went to Cyprus for one season. ⁓ That was my passion, as I keep saying, it was my passion. ⁓ But I left the kid, the wife and kids at home, but I really can't realize that actually. didn't really love my wife. ⁓ But I'd say that was down to me really, not being happy. You know, I was always moving from pillar to post.
Again, not involved with drugs. You know, I'd have a drink if went out with the boys, for example, but nothing serious, like so-called normal people. And then around about 1990, late 1990, actually middle of 1990, I'm at home now back in London. I'm now what we call...
I'm ducking and diving. I always had, like I said, a business brain. I set up certain things. I was gonna buy a nightclub with a friend of mine ⁓ in Western Suburmaire. ⁓ Spent about 50 grand to sort of get it all set up. ⁓ then the club we were gonna buy, the owner died in a plane crash. So that deal went pear-shaped. It went out the window. ⁓
Then I set up an ice cream business ⁓ and I did various things. But I got involved with, I was always, ⁓ you know, I was like, like I said, a ducker and diver. In other words, buying and selling stolen property. ⁓ You know, go to Oxford Street and sell perfumes, for example. I had all these things going on, you know. I was earning cash and I was always, handle myself.
But in that time I got to meet certain people, ⁓ infamous people. ⁓ Again, didn't get involved at all. ⁓ again, around about mid ⁓ 90s, ⁓ my best friend who was my partner at the time, I was in a pub in Kensington ⁓ and he offered me my first line of cocaine.
Andy (17:52.239)
I took it and I felt great. It made me, you know, all my inhibitions, you know, I'm a fairly short guy and I felt six foot tall, 10 foot tall, you know. It just really turned me on, if I'm brutally honest. I really liked it. But it also pushed me to leave my wife at that time. It pushed me, it drove me to give me the confidence to leave my wife and kids.
The biggest problem for me was not necessarily the wife, it was the children to leave my children. By then I had a couple of houses as well. ⁓ By then. ⁓ So, it all came to, when I lost about the 50 grand for setting up this nightclub, ⁓ I wanted a quick fix. So I didn't want my wife to find out at the time. I didn't want her to find out, so I started going to casino.
⁓ to make a quick fee. I wasn't really a gambler, I wasn't a gambler, but I did enjoy playing cards. ⁓ But I liked the buzz of playing cards, you know. ⁓ So I lost about a hundred grand in about a week.
Then she found out and then she kicked me out. there's stories around that, but I don't really need to go into it. But this is how the progression of the drug works, you know? So from doing one line of coke, you know, when I do my presentations now today, know, ⁓ that one line of coke lasted 24 years. ⁓ And that's how it was. say ⁓ one is not enough and a thousand is.
is too many. So ⁓ that's how it is. The reality of addiction is that ⁓ it pulls you. ⁓ And again, through later years of learning and education, ⁓ I realized that we're talking mind-altering drugs. It affects your brain. ⁓ These people that think they're doing social drug use or ⁓ social drinking have to understand it's affecting your brain.
Andy (20:3.106)
you know, the brain cells, how you, your pleasure reward system in the brain, you know? So this is what people need to understand, they don't. And that's why I'm here to sort of educate people as well. ⁓ So anyway, ⁓ my progress went to taking drugs ⁓ on a regular basis when I left home. ⁓ Then I got involved with going out in nightclubs and I met, as I told you earlier, that I met infamous people.
Andy (20:35.890)
And I got involved. So my philosophy always in life was, like I said earlier, I was a good entrepreneur, I was good at making money, know, whatever I put my mind to. So when you have a line of coke, and back in the day, when you're in a club and you buy cocaine, it wasn't very good. So me, I wanted sauce. So these people I met along the way, you know, I said, I want to get...
my own amounts, ⁓ large amounts, and I want ⁓ it pure ⁓ and I can maybe ⁓ sell and pay for my own drug use, for my own gear, you know? And that was how I started selling drugs. ⁓ And then one ounce became, you know, two ounces and then it became a kilo. So that's when I started getting involved in the underworld ⁓ and yeah.
and getting involved with various aspects ⁓ of that life. ⁓ Put myself in dangerous situations. ⁓ Yeah, and ⁓ managed to come through it today, obviously. ⁓ But yeah. So that's how it all started, really. That's how it all started.
Arthur Lonsdale (21:55.197)
And then, ⁓ as you've, you you told me before, you know, really, you know, the devastation ⁓ hit a new
know, Rob bottom. ⁓
Andy (22:12.376)
Make it. ⁓
Arthur Lonsdale (22:14.984)
And it was at that point that you ⁓ tell us a bit about that. that journey when things flip and you're like, no, ⁓ Andy, this isn't where Andy is going to go in life. You know, the direction is changing. It has to change.
Andy (22:21.678)
Okay, so, all right, so, yeah.
Yeah.
Andy (22:33.390)
Yeah, so anyway, yeah, mean, look, like I said, so I don't, you know, whenever I talk about my life and the stories around it, you know, I try to leave out glamorous and it sounds glamorous or movie stuff that, you know, was real for me in situations I put from carrying, you know, weapons to putting yourself in dangerous situations from country to country.
getting involved with certain people ⁓ and you know that lasted a few years. ⁓ But ⁓ in some respects I was quite lucky I didn't get too involved. ⁓ But there were times in that addiction and that lifestyle and my behaviours that I cheated death about three times. ⁓ One with a gun.
One with a car and one with a heart attack. these are the times. In that time as well, I got married three times as well. So three women were affected by my drug use in one capacity, in one way or another. My children, obviously, I neglected my children. And I thought by being a father, I could pay for their...
their love. So ⁓ if I had money, I'd treat them, ⁓ take them away or whatever it was. I was never really consistent in their lives, but I never ⁓ stopped being in contact. That's one thing, you know, I'm lucky enough to say, but I wasn't a good father. No way I was a good father. ⁓ I loved them dearly, but did I? I loved the drugs more. ⁓ So, you know, in the time, you ⁓ know, I moved to
Cyprus in the early ⁓ 90s. was backwards and forwards, but predominantly that was my home. I set up stuff over there, but then, you I ran away to Cyprus to get away from London because of the trouble I got into. ⁓ And, ⁓ you know, I got worse over there. I found it over there. Again, I got involved in Cyprus, ⁓ you know, in that time, ⁓ coming backwards and forwards to England.
Andy (25:0.632)
you know, backwards and forwards, never stable. ⁓ Met ⁓ the two other wives that I met over there, ⁓ thinking that when I met them that actually I could maybe go clean and start again, but the drug always pulled me over, you know? So it was never ending, it backwards and forwards, never ending. I could never stop. I did rehab a couple of times over here and ⁓ nothing worked.
I did one for five months, one for three months. Nothing worked. know, the first, the one three months I relapsed after a week ⁓ and the second one I did five months and that night I took a woman from the rehab and relapsed that night. ⁓ And it didn't work for me. So I'm backwards and forwards, like I said, I was always a stew and we talk about functional, people a lot mention functioning addict. Well, I'll argue the word function because
We're not functioning. The drugs inside us keep us going. ⁓ Yeah, we can make money, we can do a job. I'd wear a suit. Every day I'd wear a suit. People wouldn't imagine I was a crack addict. Because that's when my life turned, when I took my first ⁓ crack, ⁓ my first rock. That's when it really affected me. That's when I really, even though was doing powder cocaine, it was just as bad.
on a daily basis, on a nightly basis. But ⁓ when I smoked crack, it had a complete effect on my brain and the way I acted. A complete, complete, it overwhelmed me. ⁓ It really, you know, made me paranoid. It was never ending. But I could get up in the morning and do a day's work or make money. I could do that. You know, I'd go to America and I'd be ⁓ a business consultant ⁓ in America and I'd sort businesses out.
⁓ over there and I was successful but I wouldn't do it over there when I did it at a contract for two months three months I do my contract but then I'd come home and celebrate by smoking crack every night you know so I might make 30 40 grand cash and then and then I'd come over to UK ⁓ and I'd smoke it away you know I'd give the kids their bit ⁓ but I'd smoke it away and that's how my life was so
Andy (27:25.246)
It wasn't functioning really. Yeah, I could make money and do well with what I did. But, you know, I was never clean. So being clean for two months, three months, I have people now today that said to me, I've had clean time ⁓ and fine. But obviously it didn't work for you, did it? That's why you're here. And it was the same for me. I'd have clean time, but it was still in me. It was still in my brain. was the behaviors.
the mindsets, was all in me all the time. And I was a full blown addict and people just didn't see it on the outside. My family knew, for sure, my family knew, without a doubt they knew. I can give you a thousand stories now of the events in my drug life. How many times I hurt my children, put them in danger. My family, my mum finding a gun in the bedroom for example, whatever, my father.
You know, being a tough guy, my hero, he didn't know what to do with me. My brothers, you know, my two brothers ⁓ didn't know how to handle me. I had a sister, you know, when she had a, if she was a boyfriend or she got married and the guy hurt, I'd be more or less killing them, you know, to a point, you know? Not physically, not actually killing them, but I'd be the protector.
Because I was in the madness. We're talking about the madness, being obsessed by this drug, you know? And it overtakes you. And all you're thinking about, I could be talking to you now and all I'm thinking of now, I'll be looking at my watch, what time am I going to pick up my gear and then go out to use. This was a daily pattern for 24 years, right? On and off. But more often than not, it'd be a daily pattern. And that's what I used to do.
So, you know, my dad, my dad in around about 2003, he got ill. I was in Switzerland, again, doing some business over there. My brother had come over to Cyprus to see my dad. And then I arrived on the Friday back from Switzerland, went into the hospital, saw dad, everything was fine. He had, you know, cancer, but apparently it was all good.
Andy (29:45.775)
So Chris, my older brother, he went back to London and then next day on the Saturday morning I get a phone call from the hospital saying your dad's really turned for the worst overnight. So I was shot down to the hospital and his last words to me was son, look after your mum. Cause that night, was a Saturday, that night, early hours of Sunday morning he died. As he was dying and the phone rang, I was smoking crack.
I was smoking crack. Right? So, you know, I got myself together, went to the hospital. You know, I actually ⁓ slapped him around the face to wake him up, ⁓ but he died. So my dad died knowing his son ⁓ was an addict. ⁓ And I didn't stop. ⁓ I carried on. That was enough to stop. I carried on.
I carried on. I was doing other stuff. I carried on ⁓ using, using, ⁓ got married again. She had a small ⁓ baby, a two year old baby. I became like a step dad. I loved the woman. The woman was a good woman, but she met me and I told her from the first night we went out, ⁓ I do drugs. And she thought she could save me, but she couldn't because I carried on using.
And then about, I don't know, a year later, I had a heart attack, nearly died, had a heart surgery. That wasn't enough. She left me after a couple of months after the heart attack, because I was very, obviously, number one, I couldn't use. I thought I wasn't going to use anymore. Number two, I thought my life was over. I couldn't be the man that I wanted to be. And I was depressed. I was angry.
She couldn't stand it anymore, which I don't blame her at all. She left. And then about six months later, I had a client, an old client of mine, friend of mine in Ireland. That's when I started the business consultancy. So I lived in Ireland for a couple of years, was successful, and then I got pulled over to America. And then I'm doing really well in America. So like I said, I didn't use any American incentives.
Andy (32:11.126)
smoking crack. I'd go, if I went to Vegas I'd do a bit of gear, ⁓ powder, whatever. ⁓ But it wasn't a regular thing, I was focused on doing what I was doing. So I was successful. So I lived in ⁓ Greenwich, Connecticut, ⁓ New Jersey, ⁓ Florida ⁓ and Minneapolis. Minneapolis was my first visit to the States.
⁓ I was really successful, had to guide that was closing his business, managed to turn it around in three months, and a lot of money, ⁓ cash money. But every time I visit the UK, I just treated myself. In my mind, I deserve a treat, you know, and I do the gear. And then, so I was got a working visa for about five years. ⁓ So I had a good opportunity. And I thought this is where I can change my life.
and actually make something of myself, make up for what I've lost, all the money I've lost. I'm talking, if I'm really realistic, we're looking about three million pounds I've smoked away. So then in 2014, I think it was, 2013, late 12.
2012. I'm ready to come home to the UK for Christmas to my daughter Helen, who had ⁓ her boy, my grandson, JJ. ⁓ He was about ⁓ four, four years old, four or five. And I'd visit my daughter. We were very close with Helen, you know, even though she knew her dad was an addict, you know, we were very close ⁓ with Helen. ⁓ Such a lovely girl. ⁓
Anyway, I get a call from my daughter Maria. I'm just about to come home in the November of that year, ready for Christmas, making sure I was going to go and stay with Helen and her family. then Maria called me and said, Dad, Helen's got a brain tumor. I goes, what do mean? She goes, no, Dad, she just had a biopsy. So I got the next flight back to UK.
Andy (34:33.998)
I was ready to set up business over in Florida, you know, as a partnership. So my life was set up and hopefully I would beat this shit, know, beat it for once and for all. And then the first, when I came to London, I went to the hospital, I saw her with her bandage on her head. And once I looked her in the eyes, I had a feeling that she was gonna die. And then I spoke to the doctor, I said, doctor, what's, you know.
diagnosis because we've got brain tumor in the middle of the brain but we can't ⁓ I can't think of the technical terms ⁓ but we can't operate because it's too close ⁓ the proximity of the tumor. I go what's the chances of her living? She goes we can't comment on it we don't know. I say well it could be you know give me an idea it could be six months could be a year could be two years we don't know I can't tell you.
I knew in my heart then that she was going to die. that night I left the hospital. I knew people in Southend. I wanted to get away from London thinking that no one would know I was using. And I had to go back to the States, up a few loose ends, come back to my door. I promised my son-in-law that I'd take Helen to her doctor's appointments, radiotherapy, chemo, and help her through the process.
I didn't, it was every night I'd go and smoke crack in Southend. Every night I would be using, coming back in the morning and then it became so bad that I'd even miss Helen's appointments, you know. I'd miss them, I'd be late. But they knew I was using. ⁓ It was ⁓ terrible. Then the son-in-law threw me out the house, which I don't blame him. But again, my reaction was I was going to actually attack him and so I didn't like the man anyway.
time I thought he wasn't treating her right but that was my mind I was blaming everybody else you know and I took it out on him and then ⁓ and then literally a year later she died and that's when I really lost it that's when I went crazy that's when I you know I was in Birmingham at the time ⁓
Andy (36:52.204)
Yeah, that's when I really lost it. For six months I was smoking continuously. I was disruptive, I was aggressive, was violent. ⁓ wouldn't let anyone stand in my way. I blamed the world for my daughter's death. And I wasn't there for my children. I blamed my family for not supporting me. know, yeah, I was an addict. How could they support me? So, ⁓ you know, I'd ⁓ pawn everything, sell everything. From all the things I accumulated, I got rid of
⁓ And then eventually the kids couldn't, you know, people left me alone ⁓ and ⁓ they were on the peripheral, but really and truly I was on my own. One night ⁓ I tried to sort of kill myself. ⁓ It didn't work, obviously. The next morning I walked into Solihull General Hospital ⁓ and I ⁓ asked for help and I haven't used since that day and I don't know the date.
I know the time, I know can picture it in my head. I don't know the date, there's a lot of addicts out there that know exactly when they stop. I can't tell you. I can tell you it's around about 12 years, 11, 11 and a half, something like that. And yeah, and that was my... There's so many stories to tell and I could be driving you crazy. I'm not gonna sort of, there's so many bits.
and parts is so deep. ⁓ The stories are lots of events in my addiction. But the best story of all is now, this is where the story begins ⁓ in my life now, because it's all about recovery and it's all about helping people. ⁓ So that's where we're at today. My rock bottom was hit for sure, but I many, many rock bottoms, but it's not until you really, and I'm going to tell you.
Arthur Lonsdale (38:50.408)
you ⁓
Andy (38:52.686)
The people that don't really understand about higher power, which I'll explain a little bit, higher power and God. I got my faith back six months after she died. I got my faith back and actually I felt that she landed on my shoulder, my angel Helen, and picked me up. She actually picked me up. I was ready to end it and she picked me up. She actually picked me up ⁓ and said, Dad, you've got to do something. You've got to give back. You've got to help.
people save their lives. You're here to help them. That's your duty, dad. That's what you've got to do. And that's when it began. That's when it began. That was the light bulb moment we talked about.
Andy (39:38.786)
Can we have a break? Can we have a five minute break? ⁓ How is that so far?
Arthur Lonsdale (39:40.274)
Yeah absolutely, ⁓ Yeah 100%. 100%. 100%.
I mean, Andy, it's moving. It's really moving. ⁓ you've got, I mean, clearly there's just like, you you could, ⁓ you could talk about it for a month with someone and not cover it, right? And like, you know, ⁓ you know, and like there's parts.
Andy (40:1.026)
Yes. ⁓ Yeah. Am I too, ⁓ am I, ⁓ I'm flipping from, I tried to do it in a.
Arthur Lonsdale (40:9.268)
No, do you know, no, I think I really love the way, you know, you, you've clearly shared the story a lot. And in most circumstances, you've shared it with a purpose to give people something and give messages. So. I mean, I know that there's really beautiful themes that you put in there, for example, about contentment and.
I mean, trying to kind of ⁓ delve and pull out the wisdom to share for other people as someone who's not an addict myself, ⁓ but to try and do you justice and, also ⁓ kind of, I don't know, I think that there's so much people who have gone through an addiction really, I think that they go through a journey, a unique journey about what people need and how, ⁓ you know, in terms of
maybe that's things in life, but also one's relationship with themselves. ⁓ I'd love to hear about how your relationship with yourself ⁓ is different. Yeah.
Andy (41:21.336)
Yeah, wish I will, yeah. yeah, wish I will, because it's more, more consistent now, you know, and what I'm going to describe is that, that where I had my life was totally unmanageable before the drugs. This is what the message I'm trying to get through to people is that just because you're an addict, ⁓ that happens in one way, but it doesn't mean the addiction. ⁓ means I was never happy in the beginning. So it's all about me. Every addict is about them as individuals.
Arthur Lonsdale (41:47.698)
Yeah, ⁓ yeah.
Andy (41:50.975)
not feeling right within themselves. You understand? There's something missing and for me was my consistent ⁓ unmanageability of life basically. I was never happy in one place or another. You know, I got married at 18, I had everything, still wasn't happy. Bought a restaurant, still wasn't happy. know, ⁓ doing a business, still wasn't happy. You know, having a couple of houses, still wasn't happy. You know, yeah. ⁓
Arthur Lonsdale (41:51.293)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Arthur Lonsdale (42:4.211)
Yeah.
Arthur Lonsdale (42:12.020)
But like, ⁓ I totally get that. ⁓ I totally get that. So like, the seat I wanna take here is based on your, you know, remarkable life experiences, which includes ⁓ endless tales of, let's be frank, like being incredibly brave, incredibly strong. You are, you you're a tough guy. mean, the Greek Cypriots, I know that they're tough people, they're strong people, work.
Andy (42:30.264)
Yep. ⁓
Andy (42:35.618)
Yeah. Yeah. ⁓ Yeah. Yes. Yes. ⁓
Arthur Lonsdale (42:40.414)
They weren't like absolute beasts. ⁓ Absolute beasts, they're good people. They're ⁓ religious, they're very community orientated. ⁓ what shines through in your story is your ⁓ leadership, it's a weird word because it kind of misplaces it, but like you're someone that in a room.
Andy (42:45.164)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Andy (43:1.678)
Well, it's true. I've always been a leader. I've always been a leader. But I've got this quote, this here is written here. It's a rocky quote, the rocky quote, you know.
Arthur Lonsdale (43:7.207)
Yeah, but you're-
Andy (43:13.016)
Do you know the Rocky quote? Never.
Arthur Lonsdale (43:13.288)
Yeah, but like, you know, you're definitely someone, I don't actually, can you tell ⁓ me?
Andy (43:18.872)
Well you know what, because of my memory, ⁓ it's not good. ⁓ It's weird how I'm here and my memory's still not good. How about that then? But ⁓ through my addiction. ⁓ so it ain't about how hard you hit. That's what's written here, right? It's about how hard you can get here and keep moving forward. How much you can take and keep moving forward. That's how winning's done. That's written on my chair. That's me all over. Right?
Arthur Lonsdale (43:29.012)
⁓ Yeah.
Andy (43:47.255)
It's not about how hard you hit, it's about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward. How much you can take and keep moving forward. That's how winning is done. And I wrote that in my recovery. I've wrote that now because that's all about me. I kept on getting here, getting pushed down, ⁓ up, pushed down, up, and that's it. Yeah.
Arthur Lonsdale (44:10.886)
Yeah, yeah. But what I want to hear from you is, you know, like, you know, let's say you're in a room filled with people who, you know, ⁓ maybe, maybe that maybe they're, you know, some addicts, some are people who just don't feel great in themselves, or, you know, I mean, like, there's a lot of uncertainty in life, there's nothing is certain, everything's always moving. ⁓ What do you want? What do you what?
Andy (44:18.498)
Yeah.
Andy (44:24.046)
Hmm.
Yeah.
Andy (44:30.572)
Yeah. Yeah.
Arthur Lonsdale (44:37.748)
what messages do you want people to pick up from your journey in terms of how they have a relationship with themselves? You've touched on the high power stuff, perhaps it's just like being nice to yourself, accepting. I know that AA has this incredible saying which is, allow me to accept the difference between knowing what I can control and what I can't control.
⁓ I mean, there is this in, yeah, the serenity prayer, but what does seem to be important for people ⁓ in navigating any, ⁓ you know, any challenging circumstances, ⁓ just the concept of actually been like, just nice yourself. ⁓ It's not something that's easy to teach, but
Andy (45:7.310)
Yeah, it's serenity prayer. Yeah, it's a serenity prayer.
Andy (45:28.610)
People need to look in the mirror and be proud of what we can only be the best that we can be, right? And doesn't mean being the best, it means the best that you can be. That's what self-actualization is, getting the best that you can be. It's not perfection, it means as long as you're happy with yourself and you're content with yourself, you can do anything in life, you know? And that's really the message I want to get to, and obviously with addicts is finding their true self. Who are you?
Who are you as individual? How do you feel inside? You know, that's what and ⁓ that's the goal really is to get to, you know, self-actualization of being one's best self. So whatever we do in life doesn't mean we're going to be the best. It doesn't mean we're number one. It means we're doing our best to be the level that we are, you know? And that's important that everybody, doesn't matter addiction or not, there are millions out there that don't have self-actualization. They don't know their true self.
and they're not happy because they're not content with themselves. So we can all work hard, ⁓ can, you know, but we can go home at night and a day's work, ⁓ have a good day's work, but when we're alone, we're not happy with ourselves. That's when you talk about depression, anxiety, you know, all these, ⁓ all these diagnoses of people's, ⁓ how they're feeling. And ⁓ when you find your true self, there's gonna be less depression, less anxiety.
less stress, ⁓ know, less self-doubt, less fear.
Arthur Lonsdale (46:58.900)
Tell me, Andy, let's say you wake up one morning and ⁓ for whatever reason you're just feeling a bit uncertain. ⁓ The best parts of you, you're not thinking about, you're thinking about your mistakes, you're thinking about ⁓ where you've let people down. How do you pull yourself up?
Andy (47:19.202)
Well, in other words, ⁓ I'm not feeling in a great place because I've let myself down in a certain way. Is that what you're asking?
Arthur Lonsdale (47:28.232)
Well, it might not be like event triggered. It's not event triggered necessarily. But like, you know, I think that part of the human mentality in the human nature is, you know, you've got
Andy (47:36.591)
But again, what I talk about in here, what I'm talking about in here, Arthur, is when I do it in here, that life isn't perfect. And what you've got to learn, and all my people in my rooms here, I teach them that, you know, life isn't a sunshine and roses every day. There are challenges in life, right? And, you know, it's how you deal. You've got to deal with life on life terms. And I teach them how to, because all this is self-taught with me.
You know, I deal with life on life's term. ⁓ I make mistakes every day. People make mistakes. Just because I'm in recovery doesn't mean I'm perfect, because I'm not, you know? But I self-reflect. I self-reflect. ⁓
Arthur Lonsdale (48:19.028)
But put us into your brain where you go from having thoughts about where you're not perfect. You're having thoughts that are not serving you. I, yeah, of course, yeah. You want a proper break? Yeah, let's do it. Yeah, totally, yeah, whatever. Can we just keep this rolling for ease? Can we just keep this, we're just, yeah.
Andy (48:29.880)
Yeah, I will. Can we have a break minute? ⁓ Can we have a five minute? Yeah, five minute, 10 minute. Yeah, make yourself a cup of coffee. ⁓ Yeah, fine. Yeah, yeah, Yeah, by all means. All right. Yeah. All right, mate. I'm just going to pop and see my guys quickly. All right, mate. I'll be back in five, All right, mate. Bye.
Arthur Lonsdale (48:46.832)
mute whatever you will come back whatever nice whatever take time yeah of course awesome take time
Andy (55:59.321)
Thank ⁓
Andy (56:20.910)
⁓ So. ⁓
Andy (56:32.654)
⁓ So good. ⁓
Andy (59:8.078)
Sorry, I'm up. We have emergencies downstairs in my centre. Only with shopping and haven't delivered and yeah, these are the challenges I have in rehab. But it's okay, it's all good, it's all good. Right.
Arthur Lonsdale (59:10.664)
Don't be, don't be.
Arthur Lonsdale (59:27.220)
So we're jumping back to, ⁓ we're jumping back and I think there's sort of like five segments that I wanna ⁓ have little pockets on ⁓ and maybe kind of three, four minutes each. Obviously we'll see how we get on. ⁓ But going through the journey that you've gone through, you clearly have a very different relationship with yourself than before. ⁓ challenges continue, et cetera, et cetera. That's just part of life.
Andy (59:34.712)
Go on. Yeah.
Andy (59:42.264)
Yeah, yeah.
Arthur Lonsdale (59:57.109)
⁓ If you had ⁓ three minutes with someone to explain to them what kind of relationship they should have with themselves, ⁓ would you say? ⁓
Andy (60:9.664)
Okay. Well, we go back to really my learning about me, surely, you know, I need to go back into learning about me, right? So when I was in recovery, ⁓ when I started my recovery journey, I had to really self, ⁓ you know, look at ways of how I could, you know, not use again, having lost everything and the relationship with my family.
Having lost my daughter, so I'm suffering in bereavement, in loss, guilt, ⁓ the pain of losing a daughter, blaming myself, ⁓ all the things I did in my addiction, the hurt I caused my family, ⁓ realizing that ⁓ deep down was I a bad person? I felt I wasn't, but I did bad things. ⁓ The relationship with myself ⁓ was very unstable.
I had no relationship with myself. ⁓ I was very, you know, when I lost the drug, you know, when I lost crack cocaine, which was my get out clause, you know, it was a thing that took me away from all my personal, you know, problems, my thoughts, ⁓ losing my daughter in the last, in the six months after she died. It just took me away from reality, you know? So, you know, when I...
When I found myself ⁓ in my recovery, it took time to actually truly find myself, who I really was. ⁓ Realizing that I was never truly happy ⁓ in my life. ⁓ know, ⁓ materialistic things, whether it's money or houses or anything else, having children, I was never content. ⁓ So when I've lost everything,
I had to find who I really was. What did I really want in life? And as I grew into my recovery, I started to learn about myself more. So in the end of the day, where I'm at today, you roll on 11, 12 years, I really know who I am now. I've learned about boundaries. I've learned about learning to say no. I'm learning to be humble, learning that...
Andy (62:34.562)
basically be content with whatever I've got whether it's one pound or ten thousand pounds you know. ⁓
Andy (62:46.894)
⁓ And sorry, I just got a text from one of my clients. ⁓ Yeah, so my message to someone ⁓ about ⁓ finding themselves is, out truly who you are as an individual. ⁓ What do you want really out of life? ⁓ What are your goals? How are you acting on yourself with other people? ⁓ Are you humble enough?
you know, are you a nice person? Are you a person that would help someone else? Are you a people pleaser? You you're finding out there's lots of people pleasers out there, know, and addicts are people pleasers. You know, sometimes we try to justify our using by, you know, pleasing other people to give us an excuse to use. You know, me now, ⁓ I, you know, as a child, you know, did I get recognition from my parents?
⁓ Did I get the love that I was looking for in a relationship? The answer is ⁓ no. ⁓ And it's finding out what I really want and being content. ⁓ And when it comes to recognition of my services, whatever I'm doing today, do I need to be recognized? The answer is no, because from within, I know I'm doing my best. Whatever I'm doing is ⁓ actually doing good. So yes, it's great to get...
someone to say thank you or someone said you helped save my life and it's really good. It inspires me to carry on. It means I'm doing a good thing. So, but ultimately it's about finding who you are inside as well as outside. know, am I, you know, I could have a challenging day ⁓ in the rehab. There are challenging ⁓ instances, ⁓ incidents, sorry. ⁓ There are challenging people.
You know, I've got staff to look after as well, so with different personalities. But I know if I keep true to my beliefs, ⁓ my faith, ⁓ the power I have from within, that I'm going to be okay. And so throughout the course of the day, I could have challenges, I go home at night and in my job, because it's a 24 hour day job I have, you know, I really have always cared about people. But in the past, I never did it with...
Andy (65:12.162)
with really, ⁓ maybe without a motive. So if I love someone, I'm expecting it back. It's okay to want love back, but if my expectations are not met as they are today, I don't now turn to a drug ⁓ to, you know, ⁓ to actually help me overcome my expectation of not being met. Do you understand? So if I ask something from a family member or a friend,
and they say no now, I'm actually okay with that because even though I'm not happy with the no, because maybe in the past I've helped them, but I'm okay with myself. I'm content in how I feel. So my message to people out there is first know who you are from within. And it all comes from within. My faith tells me that actually tomorrow's gonna be a better day. ⁓ I have my daughter who is my angel.
up in heaven which I truly believe I've got God there my higher power and I pray mentally I pray ⁓ I don't put my hands together I actually mentally pray ⁓ you know I have a cross here that I kiss you know free time yeah that gives me strength so I have my higher power you know and to be honest from where I was ⁓ nothing can be worse than where I was
you know, losing a daughter, nothing can be worse than that, you know. So I've managed to forgive myself for my past. ⁓ I've managed to move forward. ⁓ I'm inspired by the people I work with, ⁓ the clients that I try to help. ⁓ I'm trying to make a difference, that makes me feel good. I'm very humble. I'm not judgmental at all. ⁓ I've learned to deal with...
you know, when you're, you know, with anger, with frustration, with doubt, ⁓ with fear, you know, I can honestly say today I have no fear. You know, I turn my fear into power. ⁓ There is nothing that scares me. You know, I won't put myself in dangerous situations. I'll tell you a very important thing, that when I was young to growing up and then when I got involved in drugs, drama would follow me around.
Andy (67:40.931)
I'd always attract drama, right? I'd always attract drama. Whatever scenario, drama attracted me. And now I don't have any drama. There is no drama anymore. No drama whatsoever. You know, have discussions with people or ⁓ difference of opinion, or it could be I meet someone who, you know, doesn't really listen to what I'm trying to tell them. ⁓ And then I move on.
You know, I live on my own now. I'm not with anybody. However, I'm still searching for that partner. One day I believe it will happen. But I'm okay. I keep trying until I find the person that I can live with and vice versa. They can live with me. But if it doesn't happen, it doesn't happen because I've got my children.
I've got my grandchildren and I'm content, I'm okay, you know? And you get the nights where you have a bad day at work and maybe you make mistakes throughout the day. might react, you know, I teach the guys about acting on impulse, you know? I teach them, so I try to practice what I preach. I'll reflect, you know, if I have to make amends and I make a mistake, I might overreact. I'll make amends straight away.
Whereas before I wouldn't, you know. So it's about, and self-actualisation is knowing, you know, I do Maslow's ⁓ Hierarchy of Needs, for example. And those of you that study, you know, know about psychology might have done this in a class where Maslow's, you know, pyramid, ⁓ I do that in the class when I relate another pyramid to the recovery journey of addiction. ⁓ And where each level, you need each level.
Once you reach level, you reach the pinnacle, the ⁓ peak of the mountain, you know? That's self-actualization. And part of that is transcendence. know, ⁓ a higher being or spiritual, a spiritual awakening, you know? Knowing that actually something's bigger than us. And if you can learn to hand it over and have this higher power guide you and help you.
Andy (70:5.518)
you're being a better place, you know, because you're basically, I'm never alone. I'm actually never alone. That's how I deal with stuff. That's how I live. I'm never alone. You know, I've always got something there. There's something there. It might not be a human being, it'd be a spiritual thing that if you carry on, Andy, if you carry on and carry on doing what you're doing and you're doing good and you're helping people, you know, and you're really getting something.
out of your past and you're sharing it with other people to help them improve their lives to not suffer the way you did. That means that I feel good about myself. And if I can keep ⁓ that in me going, is my passion and my drive, and it's not every day, because I'm very honest in my approach. I'm very ⁓ assertive in my approach. ⁓ I'm quite hard hitting in my approach. I won't give any BS to anyone I'm talking to.
I tell them how I feel and how I see it. And generally I'm pretty good at that and I'm pretty right and I very rarely have, ⁓ you know, ⁓ the point of people ⁓ arguing with me because they know I'm right. You know, ⁓ I talk a lot in here about consequences of addiction ⁓ and families and relating to the families. You know, there's people come in here that I used to say, so everything I say to these guys, I've lived myself. So...
They would turn around and say, I love my children or can you give me the phone? I need to speak to my daughter or son. I'll say, well, no, you can't. The rules are you can't have your phone. Yeah, but ⁓ I need to be there for, well, you know when you were drinking or using, you was never there for them. Same as me. We were never there for our children. How can I love my children when I'm choosing a crack pipe over my dying daughter? You know? How can I love her? All it is is self pity. I can't handle the pain.
So my solution is smoking crack. You know, some people's solution is getting a bottle of whiskey or a vodka, a bottle of vodka, because they can't deal with their pain. And their solution is the bottle of vodka or the crack pipe or the heroin injection, right? They can't deal with it. That's their solution. But I try and explain to them, it's not a solution. It actually makes it deeper and makes it worse. It makes it worse.
Andy (72:31.798)
and the family members around the addiction are actually suffering more than the addict. So actually you're giving them your addiction as I gave it to my children, my brother, my sister, my mum and dad. I was giving them the anxiety, the stress, the pain of suffering from my addiction. I was getting the euphoria of the drug. They, what's for them? Nothing. They're living in that nightmare. So I'm getting myself better now.
in recovery but you need to support them as well. So the answer to your original question about ⁓ dealing with oneself and looking myself in the mirror and actually being comfortable with myself because what I'm doing is good. It's all good now. You know, it's all good. So the power I get is from me. You know, I said when I first came into this world of trying to help people, you know, after about two years in recovery.
when I started to volunteer and then I started training and learning about my, you know, from behaviors and ⁓ treatment interventions, et cetera, from ⁓ cognitive behavioral therapy to dialectical behavioral therapy, ⁓ from ⁓ motivational interviewing that I've learned, from listening, active listening to become a counselor, you know, all these, this training.
⁓ is ⁓ help me self-reflect on myself, learn about who I am and I found my true, ⁓ you know, what I was really brought onto this earth for actually, you know. I found ⁓ my true calling, you know, and this is where I found. And a lot of addicts, and I try to empower the guys I work with in here, my clients in here, to actually embrace my world.
You know, some of them are a lot further ahead than me, ⁓ know, intellectual, know, academically, there's some clever people out there. And I'll tell you now, addicts, when they're in recovery and they turn, manage to change their lives, ⁓ they're actually gonna be a lot nicer people and better people than a lot of people in the community, because they haven't had their training, their self-training. You know, there's many people in the community, you know, and my family are included in this, you know.
Andy (74:55.756)
when they come to me for suggestions or you know ⁓ or maybe I look at their behaviors of being maybe some of them are selfish I look at that and I think whereas used to get upset by that ⁓ and I'd use on that I actually now well you know what I can't change the world and they are who they are you know I still love them but I don't get involved anymore because I have my boundaries you know so this self-reflection ⁓ is a daily project
You know, recovery is not a sprint, it's a marathon, it's a daily thing. And though I don't use anymore, I still make mistakes. So my solution is not ⁓ using anymore because it doesn't do me any good. In fact, ⁓ for me it's a devil drug, know, cocaine or crack, alcohol, it's legal. To me it's a devil drug, it's legal and governments should be ⁓ looking at this when it's all about the money. But it's, in alcohol is the...
the most lethal killer than it is illegal drugs actually. Alcohol is the biggest killer of ⁓ alcoholics ⁓ in the world. Yet it's legal, right? So we have to look at that, we? ⁓ But the self-reflection, it's all about what I've done in my past, my childhood, being the young kid that was abused as a child. Did I blame that on my addiction? No.
When I reflect on my life, it made a big difference in my life for sure. The way I thought, my behaviors, I was never satisfied with one thing. And then the whole progress of my life, ⁓ coming up to my recovery of doing many things, many experiences, ⁓ many experiences, ⁓ and finding my true self. And it's taken years for me to find my true self. ⁓ It's taken years.
to find my true self, which I managed to find who I am now. I'm content with myself. I'm content. And nothing is worse. Nothing can really change the way I think or my behaviors. So nothing would take me back to the dark days of when I was using or before even. You I'm actually content. Am I still passionate and ambitious? Absolutely. Have I still got goals? Absolutely. I'm 64 years old.
Andy (77:23.598)
You know, I work more most probably than a, you know, I've got some younger staff. You know, I'm doing 60 hours a week. You know, I'm on my phone in the night time talking to clients who need me or whatever on the weekend, whatever it is. But you know, I actually love it. I enjoy it. It can be pressure, but you know what? Because I'm content and I know I'm doing good things. And when I have a bad day or...
you know, ⁓ someone might throw back my past at me, you know, and I just deal with it. I can't change other people's opinions or their feelings. ⁓ What I can do is just be content within myself, be comfortable within myself. ⁓ And that's what I try and portray and teach my clients in the rehab because ⁓ ultimately I want to give them, ⁓ inspire them.
The cliche, if I can do it, you can do it, you know? And it's all about the little things in life, you know, the morally correct things, you know, doing the right thing, you know, stick to your commitment, keep your word, you know, don't let people down, be on time, you know, open up conversations, ⁓ you know, communicate with another human being, mother, father, husband, wife, children, friend, you know, if there's a bad day, open up, you know, and talk.
You know, my daughter, my Maria for example, you know, I lost her for many years as a kid and now we're like, she's a busy lady, you know, she's a very busy woman. whereas before I'd phone her in my early days of recovery, she wouldn't answer. I'd think it was me and I'd think she didn't love me and then it would upset me. But in time, I learned how to even talk to my kids, learned to treat them on a level of support.
being the father that I'm supposed to be and they respect that I'm now a grandfather to my eldest, my Helen's son, who's now 17. I've got a two year old daughter now as well, granddaughter. And the time I spend with her is like, it's beautiful, you know, because now I can be the father, the grandfather to my children. And it's contentment, it's contentment. It really is.
Andy (79:47.759)
⁓ And I'm content now. Wherever I used to go from place to place, people to people, person to person, I don't do that anymore because I'm content with myself. I can look in the mirror ⁓ and actually be happy with what I'm doing and I'm content. Nothing fazes me anymore. ⁓
Arthur Lonsdale (80:12.590)
And the recovery programs are ⁓ the whole community, you're in a group setting, that's a big component of that, you know, you know, people aren't on that journey on, on their own. It makes one reflect. ⁓ And it's very effective how people are in a group setting in that sense. Do you have ⁓ a view about how
we as a society should be trying to meet ⁓ more as a group together and ⁓ talk about some things ⁓ outside of addiction.
Andy (80:51.982)
Are we talking about society or ⁓ addicts per se? ⁓ You talk about society. Yeah, I agree. ⁓ Yes. ⁓ I think, I think yes. As a society, you know, there's not enough, there's not enough ⁓ love there and people, you know, don't get together enough. In this day and age, we've, you know, social media, phones, you know, you name it with young people now, you know, ⁓ is it rare that...
Arthur Lonsdale (80:56.360)
Yeah, people in general, mean... Yeah.
Andy (81:21.806)
you know, people have a family dinner together, you know, from children to the parents or friends even, or is it all on the phone now, you know, is it virtual? yeah, yeah, the community, yes, because in my community here in the rehab, you know, we focus a lot on the group actually, even though we do individual therapy, of course, but a lot of our work is group driven, you know, and if you have it out there, hence the fellowship.
You know, it's group settings, a fellowship, right? People come together with similarities, all lived experience to help each other, because you have an understanding. if people in general, you know, have it, group settings in the community. You go to a football match, there could be 50,000 people in an arena watching football. That's coming together, right? So one community is coming together.
But if you look more on a, you you've got social clubs, you've got, you know, whether it's sports ⁓ arenas where people go to the gym, for example, that's coming together. ⁓ But yeah, ⁓ in society, it would help society in the world that if we do come more together on a face-to-face level, yeah, and something I'll always say to people is, you know, when do people tell them they love each other? When do parents say they love their children?
When do children say they love their parents? ⁓ When's the love shared? ⁓ Having lost a daughter, I wish I could go back ⁓ all these years and do it more and say how much I loved ⁓ my daughter or be there for her. It's only when people pass that ⁓ the reflection of a funeral would be maybe you think you're in the congregation there at the funeral and you think, I wish I'd seen them more.
We'll do that when they're alive, you know, come together. And it really would make society a better place,
Arthur Lonsdale (83:29.684)
⁓ Is there ⁓ kind of an attitude or another message that you feel like people should be adopting more? ⁓ mean, you know, Britain, for example, British people are known for being quite closed and certainly there seems to be a change in relationship with how people talk about mental health, for example. ⁓ But are there things that you believe that we should be?
more honest with other people about that collectively we're not. ⁓ mean, honesty is ⁓ an interesting theme there and yeah. ⁓
Andy (84:12.654)
Well, okay, so I mean, look, I'm not going to get into political discussion or debates, you know, but, you know, I try, I try and avoid the news because, you know, the world is at war at the moment, you know, and it's very sad that countries are at war, you know, and it's very sad. And I think it's, you know, people don't really understand, you know, so many countries and so many conflicts where it's famine.
in countries or you got the Israel thing going on in Palestine, you got Ukraine, you got so many things. And in this country now there's a war on the far left, when it comes to, or is it the far right? I never can get that, with that reform and immigrants. I had a discussion with the guys here actually last week, whereas actually if I...
If ⁓ they had their way, I wouldn't be in this country now. I wouldn't have been born actually, because my parents wouldn't have been allowed in this country as immigrants, you know. you ⁓ know, so the discussion's there, you know. And you have the discussion as well regarding, you know, the word black and white, you know. You know, I wish there was a world that no colour was mentioned when it came to, you know, ⁓ when it came to people.
you know, and races, you know. ⁓ I'd love the world to be all, we're human beings, you know, and we don't have a label. And there's a lot of, and with addiction, there's stereotyping, you know, and stigma around addiction. And people just don't get it or understand it, you know. And that's when I'm always challenging, whether it's a family member or trying to educate all the time. So, ⁓ you know, mental health wise, you know, in my service.
in services in the UK. ⁓ I feel ⁓ I want to keep driving this where ⁓ some people come in here, they can't get their men their health help because they're alcoholics or addicts. They have to get clean first before they can interact with one of my patients, which I think is wrong. ⁓ It should be done together ⁓ because mental health could lead to addiction ⁓ or addiction leads to bad mental health.
Andy (86:37.326)
And I believe every addict has a bad mental health. In fact, majority of the population, I would say, have mental health issues. 99.9, if not 100%, of every individual on this earth has some form of mental health issue. So yes, it's good that it's coming to more out in the open, but more support is needed when it comes to funding. Mental health is a massive component of addiction. It's so important that
We work on this and find ways to help people with their mental health issues because their solution, people with mental health, their solution is their drink or drugs. It's quite simple, it's not rocket science, you know? It's quite simple. And to beat the addiction, you need to help work on the mental health. That's what we do in rehab. That's what we do in my rehab here. You know, we focus a lot on the mental health in the sense of behaviors, how to think.
There's certain things that medication helps with that, of course. You know, I'd love a world where people can feel free to ⁓ talk about their problems. And we talked about earlier about finding your true self. Well, finding your true self means you're not there yet because of mental health. You're not feeling good about yourself ⁓ one thing or the other, you know? It could be any related, you know, issue, OCD, ADHD, know, stress, anxiety, trauma.
You know, all these things that if people learn to talk about it and there were people there to listen, but we've got to help people, educate people on how to talk to someone, how to ask for help. Right? That's what we've got to do. You know, there's too much in this country. ⁓ And again, from my own experience, I've got no statistic ⁓ about their numbers, too many numbers. They're not too many waiting lists, you know? So ⁓ there's a world of billionaires.
You hear Donald Trump in America ⁓ and all these things and there's so much money around the world. Well, there's not enough given to help people who are in trouble. ⁓ We help in PCP here. We help people ⁓ who are funded by local authorities. We obviously, ⁓ we're a private rehab, but we have beds available to support people who can't afford private rehab.
Andy (89:3.394)
and we offer the service ⁓ to local authorities and we get people in from very, know, their homeless possibly, you know? So yes, ⁓ it's important that we focus on mental health ⁓ and, and, you know, people need to understand there's always someone to talk to. Cause I'm telling you now, I could give you 10 treatment interventions now telling you 10 ways of relapse prevention.
how to cope with triggers, how to cope with depression, blah, blah, blah. But the key to it all is talking. Talking. Talking. Talking and listening. There are so many people who are so scared to talk. And what we do is try and give them the encouragement, inspire them to talk. And part of it is trust, learning that someone's got to trust you.
And hence why I do what I do and I'm pretty good at it, ⁓ getting people to trust me because there is no judgment from me. ⁓ I don't judge anybody. How can I judge when I was the person before? I was a protagonist. There's no one who I'm talking to would do worse than what ⁓ I haven't done. You understand? So how can I judge anybody? I can't. I can't judge anybody. ⁓
And that's a big thing and the community needs to learn. There shouldn't be no judgment. And I'll tell you, and then serenity prayer, I send this out to my family at Christmas. They think, what's he doing this year? And I always send the serenity prayer. And these words, if everybody lived by these words and understood the words, the world would be a better place. So the prayer is God or how you foresee God, know, anyone who you believe is.
a higher power. ⁓ Grant me serenity, accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can and the wisdom to know the difference. ⁓ If people can live by that prayer, it will be a better price because whatever we've done before, whatever's happened before, it could be in a military-wise, in worldwide, you know, we can't change what happened yesterday but we can make today better.
Andy (91:26.838)
and the world a better place, you know? ⁓ And with addicts and mental health, it's the same thing. It's too much stigma and stereotyping. ⁓ And we need to all come to terms with this and understand that it could happen to anybody. My family, I'm the only one in my family to do my immediate family, from cousins to my immediate family, and, you know, to go through the experience I've been through. And it was just someone that was least expected.
I was good at being, I was a good kid, I was good at sport. ⁓ I had everything, business-wise, family-wise. And I was ⁓ the one least likely to become a crack addict, smoking a crack pipe. ⁓ But it was due to my mental health from childhood. I ⁓ had a bad experience, but I'm not gonna blame that experience. It shaped my future.
It's definitely shaped my view but there was something missing in my mind and in my life. There was something missing. I was never happy with myself and I've learned in time but it took me years of addiction to come to where I am today. So look in the mirror and be happy and content with myself. So the message to the community was yeah come together, tell someone you love them, put your arms around someone, yeah be kind to each other, you know.
Arthur Lonsdale (92:43.678)
What? ⁓
Andy (92:53.900)
Yeah, people, know, the biggest part of a relapse, for example, ⁓ people ⁓ being isolated, isolation. They want to be alone. You know, when someone else feels depressed or low or lonely, loneliness is key component of addiction, you know. People drink and use alone. ⁓ And if you could reach out to a family member.
be around that family member or a friend. When you're in the madness, it's impossible to stop. Why not do it before and hopefully people won't feel the need for this drug or drink.
Arthur Lonsdale (93:40.324)
I was lucky enough to ⁓ support a friend ⁓ in one of his AAA sessions ⁓ and ⁓
Arthur Lonsdale (93:51.861)
⁓ I had no idea what to expect, but it was so moving seeing people be so open about what ⁓ they were struggling with ⁓ and the format, the way people were so embracive of each other. But it did leave me thinking why, there should be a space for for people who aren't addicts, ⁓ where you are in a room.
And you're reminded that, you know, we're all together in ⁓ these challenges. ⁓ You know, there will be so many communities that, ⁓ gosh, I mean, you know, if they're lucky to hear your story and the learnings that you've had. ⁓
Do you, ⁓ is your mission basically just to touch as many people as you can with what you've learned?
Andy (94:50.114)
Yeah, absolutely. mean, we do a lot with families and ⁓ I did this in the rehab the last couple of years since I've been managing the place. ⁓ Work a lot with families. Now the families are living with the addict or are connected to the addict ⁓ in here. So I'm educating them, supporting them and hopefully helping them as well with their mental health ⁓ and their feeling about themselves. And because they go through the same emotion as the addict, know, ⁓ from the guilt.
whatever, I've mentioned it earlier. So yes, ⁓ that's how I give my message to family members to help them in their lives as well and hopefully make them better people, you know? ⁓ yeah, it's all part of it. ⁓ So yes, ⁓ I pass that message on. Ultimately, we all want to live in a better place at the end of the day. Yeah. And we need to be ⁓ coming together as one.
Arthur Lonsdale (95:45.597)
Anyway.
We're gonna move on to the quick file questions. So three things you get joy from.
Andy (95:56.303)
⁓ Three things I get joy from. I've seen someone, when I get a text ⁓ a year ⁓ saying I'm a ⁓ year sober or clean or two years sober or clean. That's what I get joy from. ⁓ I get joy from seeing my little granddaughter on a Sunday morning ⁓ just playing with her and spending some quality time. That's joy. And ⁓ I get joy from seeing my top and my football team win which is very rarely lately. But yeah.
⁓ That's what I'm going to show everyone. ⁓
Arthur Lonsdale (96:28.916)
⁓ Yeah, things you can't control. ⁓ A mantra you want to embrace now would be...
Andy (96:35.470)
Three.
Arthur Lonsdale (96:36.476)
A mantra you would like to embrace now would be maybe it's the serenity prayer, an expression that you'd ⁓ like to live by or gives you strength.
Andy (96:45.410)
I wrote this down again, like I said, we go back to my memory.
So ⁓ the serenity prayer ⁓ for sure. And then there's another thing that I created to the guy about a month ago, whatever. If you can't live it, you can't be it. If you can live it, you can be it. All right, I wrote that down. So in other words, if you've got a mental strength of creating the life you want to create for yourself and you have this passion and desire to achieve.
and you're smart enough to do a goal, ⁓ you can actually, with hard work, can actually achieve it. Yes, you can achieve it. And if you've got the passion and drive, ⁓ you can achieve anything you put your mind to. That's what I believe. That's my mantra, yeah.
Arthur Lonsdale (97:38.950)
One unusual thing that gives you pleasure.
Andy (97:41.612)
Unusual.
Andy (97:45.400)
Don't do anything unusual. ⁓
Arthur Lonsdale (97:48.145)
I mean football, I would say, is usual, Maybe there's something quirky. Maybe you've been, you know, maybe you're big into your train watching or...
Andy (97:51.222)
Yeah, it's usual.
Andy (97:57.135)
I tell you okay, okay, so I moved, okay, it would be unusual for my past life, right? This is what I teach the guys in here, right? It's what I teach the guys in here and it goes a little bit towards transcendence and, oh, I can't think of the word now, I've got to my head. So I moved to...
just outside Milton Keynes, I ⁓ live by a canal and there's countryside, there's acres of space. ⁓ And what I can tend to do on a Sunday or whenever I've got time ⁓ is to go and walk along the canal and just see the birds and the swans in the canal. And that serenity, that peace ⁓ of walking along ⁓ and with my mind, just clearing my mind and seeing nature, you know? ⁓
and aesthetic, yeah that's what I was looking ⁓ for, Being, that gives me peace, Yeah, so that's, for me, people knowing from my past, that's unusual. But it's not unusual for me now, because it's usual, you know? Because I have serenity in my life now, I have peace in my life. So, to people out there, might be unusual, I don't know, but there's not really quirky things, no, no, I'm not quirky.
When I was in the madness I did a lot of things. ⁓
Arthur Lonsdale (99:25.716)
⁓ Yeah. A favourite book, film or artist that isn't obvious.
Andy (99:32.526)
⁓
⁓ I was never a great reader, but... ⁓
Carl Rogers. ⁓
Arthur Lonsdale (99:44.040)
Maybe a, yeah, maybe a Cypriot artist.
Andy (99:50.914)
No, a Cypriot artist. No, I'm not. was never really, obviously. mean, again, again, I'm just trying to get the book. Here's Roger's book that I've The Way of Being, Carl Rogers. I had that from the day from about second year in recovery when I started doing the counseling course, The Way of Being, Carl Rogers. He's the guy that started.
person centered counseling. That taught me that I can learn to listen. ⁓ Artist, this is a picture that ⁓ I have had with me for about 25 years, right? ⁓ And I put that in, I do a group on it. Who do you think wrote and painted this?
Andy (100:44.556)
Any idea?
Pink abstract.
Andy (100:56.494)
⁓ Salvadori Dali, Salvadori Dali, right? Tell me what you quickly because I've got this time now as well. What do you see in this picture?
Arthur Lonsdale (100:56.500)
I'm, I'm stra-
Arthur Lonsdale (101:0.690)
Yeah.
Arthur Lonsdale (101:15.188)
pain?
Andy (101:17.272)
Yeah, okay.
Arthur Lonsdale (101:18.420)
⁓ pain, hiding, ⁓ things being hidden.
Andy (101:23.436)
Okay, so this is, I do a group on this, right? I've had this about 25 years. I bought this ⁓ when I was in the madness still, and I was trying to find a way out. I kept this all this time with me. Every country I went to, I've taken it with me. So in recovery, I do groups on this now. I ask the question to the patients, my clients in the group room, what do you see out of here? And they all give different visions of what they see. And when I was attracted to it, I'll say, this was me.
my madness. This is a crack pipe destroying my head, ⁓ destroying my brain, destroying my body. And if you see here, there's a Coca-Cola bottle here, ⁓ old Coca-Cola bottle, right? So I related that to Coke. The black was the devil coming out and all the black from the smoke, destroying my whole body and my whole mind and my life. This is my old me before the drugs was ashamed. I lost myself. I couldn't look at myself anymore.
And this was me reaching for a way out. And this is where ⁓ time stood still and there was a light at the end of the tunnel here. That's what I saw in this. And now I can look up now. So if Sori Dori painted this, he'd be looking up now. Yeah? This guy. Because now I can look up now. I'm not ashamed to look at that person because that person is gone now. I've rebuilt myself now. That's my life in ⁓ a nutshell.
That was my old life. ⁓ Now I've gone through the tunnel.
Yeah.
Arthur Lonsdale (102:56.340)
That's really beautiful. Thank you for sharing that. ⁓ Next question is.
You can add one thing to your bucket list today, what would it be? You can add one thing to your bucket list, what would it be?
Andy (103:6.348)
Say again?
Andy (103:11.222)
Tell again, one thing.
Arthur Lonsdale (103:13.064)
you can add one ⁓ item to your bucket list. What would it be?
Andy (103:29.698)
My bucket list is getting my book out. My book out. I want to publish. I've written a lot of words, but I want to publish a book because I've got a story there to inspire others. So I want my book published. That's what I want. That's my bucket list. That's my next thing on my bucket list. And I actually want to promote it on The One Show on the BBC. ⁓ On The One Show. I want to promote it. My bucket. That's my bucket list is my book. I want that.
It's a goal I've set myself since my recovery and I've never, know, with all my training and university and getting to where I am today, obviously I'm really busy and it's a matter of my goal is to get this book published because I want to get the message out to millions around the world. I, listen, there's many people like me have written books, of course, but why not me? So it's a goal that I want to share, yeah. I want to share my story.
Arthur Lonsdale (104:27.644)
And ⁓ it's a real privilege ⁓ for anyone listening to hear your story, to hear how you share it, ⁓ the myriad of different concepts and ideas that you want people to understand, but without spending it out too obviously. ⁓ And there's so much that anyone I think can ⁓ take from your story, ⁓ story of real strength.
story of finding your mission, your passion. ⁓ And I think ⁓ there's endless conversations and ⁓ interviews that people ⁓ can take different things from, but the story of finding contentment and how important that is, ⁓ is an incredible one. Thank you so much.
Andy (105:18.258)
You're very welcome. If anybody's out there that listens to this, ⁓ anybody who's got a friend or a family member or yourselves as individuals, PCP, know, is, know, we're the play, honestly, we do understand and we're there to help. It's as simple as that. We can help change ⁓ you and save your life, basically.
