Inside TV production & the 250 questions that spark deeper connection

lindsay jill roth

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Arthur: Today we welcome Lindsay Giro. Thank you, Lindsay, for being on the Collective Institute of Ideas. Such a pleasure to have you on to give an introduction lindsay is an award-winning TV producer, working on live events.

She's worked for huge networks, including NBC ESPN. The Grammys. She's also the former producer of the Emmy nominated series, Larry King Now as well as the author of some incredible books, which we'll talk about naming the latest, which is Romance and Practicalities. Lindsay you've been involved in telling so many different stories.

What does storytelling give you?

Lindsay: Thank you so much for having me on. We all have stories. We all tell stories. We all live stories. And what I love to do is find the story in anything.

I started my career in radio actually. Which is funny because it's a lot like podcasting. It's full circle, right? So started telling stories where you could hear them but not see them. Then [00:01:00] moved into tv, then moved into books, and I just find, I'm always listening for the story in something and I like to find the avenue to make it great,

Arthur: because there's two parts that're quite interesting. One is, and you talked about it a bit in the past, but, giving to people and how that's really important to you. And there's so much around storytelling and how it gives to people. But also it links to your curiosity, right?

There's desire to learn more. How do you feel storytelling serves people generally?

Lindsay: When I was a kid, I was a terrible history student, for example. And I just think had, I had teachers who taught me history, like the story that it was like the movies. That we see, I think I would've become more ultimately knowledgeable and more receptive to what was being taught. And so that's what I think the power is of that day to day storytelling.

Again, not to live in the clouds. Not [00:02:00] every moment can be a story, but hey, what's the story that you and I are getting to tell? Today, and how cool is it that we can create magic for ourselves and someone else listening to maybe inspire them to try something new or do something different?

Arthur: Have there been certain stories that you feel really move you and have attached you to becoming the best version of yourself today? Some kind of themes that you really felt attached to.

Lindsay: It's funny, I was initially drawn to talk. Talk radio, Larry King talk TV interviews, real things. And so I guess it, it all boils down to communication, really which actually is what my book is about.

No one's ever asked me this question in a way that makes sense for my personal through line, but if you think about it, talk radio to talk tv. But as I've gotten older, I realize that, when I was younger and telling stories with celebrities or [00:03:00] on a TV show or something that was maybe a little bit more exciting in terms of who was in it.

Now the ability to be a mom and write books and tell stories, whether in content for corporations. I'm doing a really cool project with Ferrari right now. In the F1 world telling those kind of stories that's pretty sexy. But also any kind of storytelling is sexy if you find the story in it.

Arthur: And. Looking at media today, right? It's a busy landscape, but it's also such an exciting one. It's such an exciting one. Particularly in the way that media and social media allows us to really connect with stories in a different way. Be it the audience or the, the people involved in the actual stories.

Are you being pulled into a corner of wanting to shed light , in a certain area that you don't feel has been lit up yet through media? Or perhaps another way to ask. It's do you, Ferrari water, a really interesting business, really interesting industry [00:04:00] with what's been happening in the growth in the us.

But do you feel like part of that story, perhaps it's in the Formula one world or it is underplayed.

Lindsay: So I think the beauty of all these industries and individual people telling them is that, you and I can each. Be working on our own story about something, Ferrari or whatever. But because of where I come from and where you come from, it's they're going to be different. So I always encourage people, if you are thinking of writing or putting out a piece of content or you wanna try Substack or blogging or podcasting, nothing should stop you from doing that.

'cause there's never been a better time for people to get out and tell a story. There's no barrier to entry. Anymore, right? You can publish your own book. You can become your own storyteller, whether it's on TikTok or Instagram or, and that's visually [00:05:00] audibly or in the written world. And that I think, is what is so inspiring right now for creators.

Even if it's a secondary or tertiary thing that is just something you wanna try or do, go do it. Don't let anything stop you.

Arthur: Yeah. Hoist of sale and ride hard. Is there a project or a story that you've just been like, wow I need to cover this someday,

Lindsay: I guess I'm really lucky because I've gotten to a point in my career where if I find a nugget. I run a production company, I can pursue it, I can develop it. I'm not bound to a particular network or audience. If I find the right audience, I can try to sell it through. A lot of people come to me and say, can you make this for me?

But there are those projects. And actually for anyone listening, Arthur and I have a really great mutual friend and she is also an incredible filmmaker, and we had come up with this idea in the children's television space. And we've been working [00:06:00] on it together because again, we found a nugget and we thought, this is exciting, this can help people.

We love the message of this. Let's try and put it out there. So I think, again, if you can get to a particular point in your career where you can discern what might do well and what you wanna do, go for it.

Arthur: From the outside, looking at film, tv media production, there's so much that one doesn't necessarily understand or, or get to understand from looking at these screenshots. So let's say your projects, if we go on your website we check out what, what's Lindsay been out to?

Lindsay: Oh my God. Nothing

Arthur: my God, oh wait, we can see Brad Pitt's name on here. We like, is that Oprah? Is that Charlie X cx? Oh my goodness. So tell us about maybe each of those and

some fun stories would be fantastic.

Lindsay: Yeah, so I think the best one there, let's go Brad Pitt. 'cause you know it's Brad Pitt,

Arthur: Brad Who? Brad, who?

Lindsay: why not Brad Pitt? Have you heard of him? [00:07:00] He Google him, he'll come up. So he has Chateau Mival is this beautiful wine producer in France and it's on his property.

There is some, you guys, you Brits would say controversy. There's some controversy there. So I'm not, I don't wanna seem naive when I talk about this. So again, if you Google that, there is controversy there, but I got an amazing opportunity to bring in a team because on that property, there is a recording studio and it's called Mival Studios

val Studios was this incredible recording studio, I guess decades ago. Pink Floyd recorded there. Really great artists would go there and it was a retreat. As you would say, and they would go, they would develop their records and incredible music would come out of there. And Brad and his partner [00:08:00] decided that they would reinvent it and they would bring Val Studios back.

And they completely rebuilt the studios. Again, if you know anything about Brad, he is an architecture fiend. Everything was done to like perfect, pristine detail. And the goal of this was, again, to make music, but also to provide that retreat to different artists when they wanted to create. I was given an opportunity to film a story about.

This whole venture and this whole project, and to interview Brad and his partner Damien Ard, who is a French musician, who's just a beautiful classical musician, composer everything. And they partnered on this project, and I always, have you ever seen the movie Sideways

Arthur: Not yet.

Lindsay: Okay, so it's old, but it takes place in a vineyard.

And I remember this. Movie because you felt like you were getting to see this [00:09:00] oasis of land in this vineyard that they were telling the story at, and it was just this like moment in time, this gorgeous vineyard telling this great story. Anyway, so we were invited to Miraval, to literally we got to go on every inch of this place and see the land and the studio where the first ones let in and see the studio.

It was me and a small team and. It was one of the most beautiful oasis I've ever been in my entire life. I felt like talk about storytelling. I was creating all these insane stories in my own head about what was here? The olive trees, the beautiful oval pool, the recording studio that was so peaceful and calm, the vegetables growing off the land. And then of course we start filming and Brad shows up in his little dune buggy and he hops off and he is Hey guys, what's up? And just kindness, unassuming, nice guy. Who welcomed us [00:10:00] into his home essentially. And my favorite part of this story, I've never told it publicly actually, my favorite part of this story is that his chefs and his team prepared this beautiful lunch for us.

And we sat in the kitchen and as we were eating, he came through and he said, Hey guys, can I join you for lunch? Absolutely. He wanted to sit with us, get to know us, pour us some of his rose, which was delicious. And just had the most normal chat and then went on to film stories there and we got to turn this beautiful oasis into a piece to highlight, something great that is now, other than Rose coming, the creativity that is coming out of this beautiful property.

He had a painter friend who was there, who was painting and staying at one of the properties on site. And you go in there as a producer and don't. We couldn't scout it. It was not something I'd seen before. You don't know the story that you're going to tell. My belief is that as a producer, a lot [00:11:00] of people have heard

the saying, put it together in post, meaning you go get all the stuff and then you figure it out what it's gonna look like after. And I think one of my secret weapons is I like to figure it out in pre and do as much work before to understand what you're gonna tell and how you're gonna tell it so that you're prepared while being really flexible on set on sites that you can pivot if necessary.

But we didn't know what we were going into. We just knew the story we wanted to tell and hopefully would. We'd get something great out of there. That was a magical shoot for me in so many ways. Getting to meet a legend that so many people think is a legend going on this beautiful property, getting to hose it down with cameras and hopefully represent it as beautifully on the outside as it is on the inside.

Arthur: Hose it

What a great expression. In so many ways that answers the question. So thank you. And in so many ways, has it put you into the seat of a producer, right? You've got this story, you have an a sense of where things might be [00:12:00] interesting, there's a lot of things that are gonna be quite issue uncorked when you get there, right?

Lindsay: Look there's always things that you do as a producer. I think you look at things analytically, you figure out what story you wanna tell. I always start, whether it's my story or someone comes to me as a client and says, can you create this? What's your audience? Who are you trying to reach?

What's your goal? So many people have access to content these days, which is a great thing. But I think if you try and be too universal, you miss your core audience. And I think those people who understand the message they're trying to tell and who they're trying to reach and their target of how to get there I think that's a great life skill.

Anyway,

Arthur: Yeah. And what, to you, is your favorite part of that process? Is it the research beforehand drinking the bottle?

Lindsay: Yeah. When you're handed on the property a bottle of wine that you're given, it's probably drinking the bottle. But I love all of it, [00:13:00] and then I feel like I thrive when I'm on set. I love managing talent. The operations of making it all work. And then I love letting it rip when you're there and finding those little nuggets, whether it's in an interview or I work on scripted and unscripted project as well.

And again, to your initial question of how to make something different. Or is there anything different I wanna do, I always like to find the angle. What's different about this?

Arthur: And why can't I see Oprah's face on your on your website? Tell us about that. Can we

Lindsay: Yeah.

Arthur: unb that one?

Lindsay: That was an interview that I did. It was a long time ago actually. I produced an interview with Larry King, interview with Oprah and. She's such a legend. And I'll never forget, she walked onto set and she, you could hear hello and she just made her [00:14:00] presence known. And I laugh when I think about it because it's such a mundane thing, but we had a photographer on set and.

And I was putting, I was fixing her mic. We had a sound person on set, obviously, but I was fixing her mic because you could see it. And it's just crazy. And someone has a photo of me like reaching into the back of Oprah's pants as I'm just making sure her mic is not seen. And I just, I laugh when I think about that because it's, you never know what moment you're gonna catch in a photograph of someone.

But we were busy, we were working, I was, I didn't want it shown on camera. But the thing with doing an interview with Oprah is that you have to be prepared. And there's so much that you could talk to her about. And there's so much as we know online. You can find out anything online whether it's true or not.

And she is so smart and, she looks you right in the eye and can have a great conversation with you about anything. So yeah, that was just [00:15:00] an, that was a smart, great interview with two legends that I feel really proud to have produced.

Arthur: And when you, when one thinks about, the, the, the titans in the production industry, the real entrepreneurial people in this space , what do you think dictates to be the qualities that you need to be great in that space?

Lindsay: That's a great question. I am still trying to figure it out. So hopefully I go from good to great as well. But my husband actually strikes me as someone who, he's achieved amazing things in his life, but what I love about him most and what I think the reason I wanna say this is 'cause I think this is a common quality among very successful people.

Is not only curiosity, but acting on curiosity. So if you're curious and you read, it's. Looking up [00:16:00] every little thing you don't know. It's finding a subject and digging in to, wait, I don't totally understand this. How do I get to know it better? So really always fueling your mind, always fueling some bit of yourself that wants to be a little bit better.

It doesn't always have to be in a high pressure way. I went to hear Andrew Ross Sorkin speak recently. Great book that's just come out is incredible reporter, and he said the same thing about just fueling your own curiosity and always be learning. And I think when people naturally have that, it does help them achieve success.

Arthur: thank you for that. That's a wonderful answer. And yeah, it'd be interesting to see, people will relate to that in lots of different ways. Confidence people aren't always born with confidence and, we, we all live in very varied circumstances. Y if you [00:17:00] are sitting down with someone who you can see they haven't quite got that fit with life yet.

They haven't worked out what they're incredible at. They're interested in a few things, where do you push them?

Lindsay: I would push someone to try reasonably, right? You can't just assume you could just give up on making an income and go try something. But I would say try things to know if you like them or don't like, like them. I think not liking something as you're trying to find yourself is just as valuable as liking something because if you can knock something off that list.

Then it's just as valuable to hone in on where you can find yourself. I think also mentally, a lot of people really do look like they have it all together. And they don't. They just look like it. So you might be feeling scattered and you might be feeling like you don't have your stuff together. And you may be looking at the 10 people who walk by you on the street and think, wow, they're so put [00:18:00]together.

They're probably going to this great job or this happy family. It's definitely, unfortunately not the case. I think it's always nice to remind yourself that this is temporary. You are doing something to figure it out. And not everyone who looks like they have the perfect situation around you does, again, not that they should be in bad situations, but to remember that we all struggle and it is hard for us.

So give it a try. I don't love the saying, fake it till you make it. But there really is something to that saying. The other day, for example, I I saw there was this an event for, there was an event for two authors that I really like and that I thought would be great to meet both personally and professionally.

I'm an author, I'm a producer, they are in my space. And I went to this event and I waited till the end. Everyone else got their book signed and I waited, and instead of just going [00:19:00] there and handing my book and getting it signed, I told myself to have some courage, do a hard thing, which, is not easy for me.

It's not easy for anybody. And I went up there. I introduced myself. I told them who I was, what I'm working on, what my platform is, why I respected them, why I liked them and how I could see some synergies potentially for the future if they were open to it. And that is hard. That's hard. But I knew I would regret if I hadn't.

Tried that and done that. And you know what? It was great and there was a positive result that came from it, and there will be to come based on how well that interaction went. I just, I wanted to tell that story because I don't, I try and practice what I preach.

Arthur: And looking at the media landscape. , There's always people in a room who are gonna be talking about something positive that's happening nearby or something [00:20:00] that is, isn't quite right. And, for those that are curious, if you're reading the news there's a lot of things that can be, hey, make you a little bit more nervous. But looking at the media landscape, you've touched on it, right? Like there, there's this huge sense that anyone can produce content. Not even sense, like it's real. What you, what are you really excited about in terms of what the media landscape has going ahead, and what do you see as potentially being true in the next five to 10 years?

What direction are you really excited about?

Lindsay: I think it's hard to ignore how AI is going to come in and impact us and impact the media. I think. I am totally scared of that happening, but also really excited for the knowledge that it can bring us. I think for data points and sifting through data and honing in I guess I would like to use that to help better tell stories in terms of targeting an [00:21:00] audience.

I don't really know. I think the unknown is both scary and exciting. Look, realistically it's hard to get projects made. It's hard when there is so much, but the cream does rise to the top and I think, i'm trying to be comfortable in the uncomfortable of not knowing what's coming and just trying to be aware of what's out there and keep my integrity about the projects that I choose to work on and that I produce.

As I said before, you can find a new story. You can find anything to validate an opinion that you have. So I, I will be very interested to see, where median ethics goes and how we tell stories. I think how we tell stories is exciting to me. Substack didn't exist a few years ago.

So how else are writers, producers, creators, musicians? How else are we gonna be able to get an audience? I don't know. Let's see.

Arthur: And also, with the [00:22:00] internet, it allows people to find out about content organically. You're not, it's not purely word of mouth. It's not like we are living in an offline community where content it's not this product that can exist infinitely.

Lindsay: Yeah. I also though, I like when I see people reading books. I like people, when we think content we often think screens, but I like when we are not attached to our screens. I think, yes, I work in the media, but I am also human and I have young kids and I wanna make sure that life is not only about what's coming at us.

All the time. Let's give our brain a rest and go outside and smell the flowers, literally, because you can't smell them through your screen.

Arthur: Speaking of books,

Lindsay: Yeah.

Arthur: your book, romance and Practicalities, what an exciting just realm to be focusing on, the concept of for those that don't know much about it yet it involves suggesting to readers that there are 250 [00:23:00] questions that they can ask their partner or, potentially people who know who they're dating to work out Yeah.

Yeah. Or for themselves

could you share five real truths? Around the topic of love and romance that you wish you knew in the day.

Lindsay: definitely. I could share so many more than five, but you're getting me to hone in,

Arthur: Yeah. Sorry, I'm not playing this nice guy.

Lindsay: One communication is sexy, right? And we can dig into what that actually means later.

But actually having conversations with someone you care about is sexy. Number two people show you who they are. You just have to believe them. So you can see what you wanna see in people and you can take maybe what they're saying as their word, but if they don't actually show you any follow through, they're showing you who they are and what their interest [00:24:00] level is.

Number three, enjoy the process while you're going through it. I know it can get really stressful. But looking back, I wish I'd enjoyed it a bit more, finding my person. Yes, it was a road, it was a real up and down road. But it did work out well thanks to the system that I created.

But enjoying it would've, I think, been a lot more fun. Four. Look back at your childhood to really see how it's impacting how you behave as an adult and an adult in your both friendships as well as love and relationships. Is this too deep? Am I

Arthur: No. This is that. You are

Lindsay: Okay.

Arthur: completely.

Lindsay: And number five, my God, number five.

Sex is not a replacement for intimacy.

Arthur: The brain is whirling with thoughts because people can be quite [00:25:00] unfair to themselves, right? Oh, that didn't work out. We're a waste of time. No not remotely.

Or like sometimes you've, one can find oneself in a conversation where it's oh, why didn't it work? And you're like yeah, for these reasons. But actually a lot of it was great, and it's really served me in these ways. You talk about that.

Lindsay: What you're doing there is so good. Okay. There is, we have this this natural. Thing that we, as people do and I get it. I do it too. Everyone does it. If something is, doesn't work out, we wanna trash it, right? It's so natural. Be like that friendship. Ugh. Here's why it was so bad. But actually, don't trash it.

Leave it for what it was. Look, it could have ended badly, but you could probably take some good things from it, and if only bad comes from it, you should. A actually look at it and understand why you hung in for something that was so bad the whole time. I really wanna stop the stigma of when people get divorced, of seeing their [00:26:00] marriage or long-term relationship as a failure.

It's not a failure because it's gonna propel you to what you do next if you choose to be single for the rest of your life. That's okay. That's cool. You should analyze why based on what you came from. If you choose to go into another relationship, don't see that as a failure and jump right into the next, see that as, here's why it didn't work.

I'm gonna learn from it and choose something that might be better for me now.

Arthur: And the other notion I think is particularly addressing around your point is this concept of, what's happening is telling you something, right? There's this amazing point someone made is if someone's not replied to you, that is a reply. Do

Lindsay: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Arthur: And people, to your point and I really recommend the book to everyone, but. Just this concept of sometimes, we can very easily build a narrative of what's happening based on our own history or various things that isn't actually true [00:27:00] or look to see things that we want to be true, but when they're completely not true.

And just attaching ourselves. Do you have a comment around that?

Lindsay: Yeah, I, you reminded me as you were speaking. There's a story I tell in the book and I was just getting to know the man that would eventually become my husband and. I couldn't figure something out. He was saying something to me that was hurting my feelings unintentionally. And it was not a nasty thing.

Tru, truly, he was saying why are you still single? I can't believe you're still single. Why has no one snatched you up yet? And I was self-conscious about. Not having found my person after I walked down the aisle in everyone else's weddings. And so I was taking it personally, like there was something wrong with me, why I was still single.

And he meant it in a way of 'cause he felt, wow, I'm so lucky that you're still single. What? Why you're look in his mind [00:28:00] it was like. I think you're beautiful. I think you're smart. I think you're all these things. So how do I get to have this chance with you? But I was taking it personally and he was in his mind waiting for another shoe to drop and I realized I was walking right along.

It was like south of the river, right along Tower Bridge area. And I had this moment, and again, I talk about this in the book of oh my God. And I don't wanna give away what it all showed and came together, but I had this, oh my God moment of the reason he's making these comments has nothing to do with me.

It has to do with something. And I know now what it was he experienced in his childhood. He was afraid that I would ch change or become someone that I'm not. When I was taking it personally about not having found. My relationship, yet the, his comments had nothing to do with me. [00:29:00] It was all about him.

Does that make sense?

Arthur: Totally. Totally.

Lindsay: And so we take things personally based on our lens and our childhood and our perception of ourselves moving around the world. When we actually had a conversation about this and I told him what was upsetting me. Said my theory, which I had thought of in this revelatory moment by Tower Bridge.

Hey, it all made sense to us.

Arthur: It's so fascinating how we just have no concept of really understanding what people are thinking, right? And people think in such different ways. And to your point around communication, how important that is because we, everyone has walked such different paths and of course they react to so many different things.

Two things I'd say that are quite interesting. One is even with with friends constantly, we can so easily feel like someone else's actions. A around what? At us. But actually it's probably more often the case about [00:30:00] them. And the second thing this is a point made in another episode of the collective issue of ideas by an ex FBI agent.

And he said this amazing

Lindsay: love episode by the way.

Arthur: Thank you. And and he said this amazing thing, which is he's like Arthur people when they act in a certain way, they think that action's normal.

Lindsay: Yeah.

Arthur: Yeah.

Lindsay: Have you ever been in a situation where you've said my family does this, or for the holidays we do this, or, oh, that's, I do that because of this, and someone looks at you like, wait, what? What? Huh? And it's that exactly of oh, that's your normal. That's not my normal. And so when you grow up and you expect to meld your normals, you can't expect that everyone's house on the inside look like yours.

So I always say to people. Even if you grew up in similar backgrounds or you were next door neighbors growing up and you meet and you [00:31:00] start a romantic relationship, because you have the familiarity, doesn't mean you don't have to talk about things. You can't just assume because you will live your lives assuming things and then go apart 'cause you never talked about them.

Two people who share a religion, you still have to talk about your religion and what it means to you, even though the fundamentals of that religion are the same because you're coming at it from different angles and people don't always know how to do that. And so I back to the book I've given not only sharing my story, but.

I interviewed a hundred people for this book, whether it's people who've done the system, single people, married people, subject matter experts, celebrities, all these people to show and teach you as a reader how to communicate. 'cause sometimes people don't know the question to ask, and I frequently hear, wow, we've never talked about this.

We've been together for 10 years, we've never [00:32:00] talked about this. Thank you. Thank you for giving me something else to talk about, or, oh my God I'm single for the first time and I never even realized I should talk about this with a potential partner. Never even thought about it myself.

Arthur: It makes sense in a way that people don't talk about certain things, right? Like it's, fair base and,

Lindsay: okay.

Arthur: But if relationship strength, transparency and communication are everything to how much you can get from relationships and even yourself, right?

Like when you learn and you're honest with yourself and there's, you can have a be, a better, more productive ride. I want to hone in on a few of your the questions , which really stood out as interesting, the first one. And it'd be great.

Lindsay: Jump in, I just wanna say something that, while communication seems like the easiest thing to do in the world, we're not really taught how to communicate. While being in love and being in a romantic relationship seem like, oh, great, I'm going to fall in love.

We're not taught how to be in love. We're not taught how to be in a relationship. So the questions that you are going to [00:33:00] get to are to help people. We take continuing education for our careers. We have to be taught how to ride a bike. That kind of thing. This is to educate people how to be the best partners to themselves and others that they can be.

Arthur: Thank you so much for clarifying that because it's crazy just the concept. Many people don't have know, people in their community where they have necessarily relationships that they can really learn from. We don't necessarily, like in business, businesses often have a North star metric that they're looking to achieve, but what is that in a relationship?

What does that look like? How does that break down? There are so many nuanced way, ways and parts of our lives, things that we want, expectations that exist

Lindsay: What's modeled for you is what becomes your teacher.

Arthur: It's hard to know what great looks like without seeing what great looks like, right? And

Lindsay: Everyone has a different perception of what great is, right? So like you might be looking for something different for what [00:34:00] I'm looking for. So if we're in a relationship together and we don't talk about that, then what are we trying to achieve together?

Arthur: Look no further because luckily Lindsay has written the most amazing book, which helps you figure out these things. So great question here is what helps you feel heard and understood.

Lindsay: there's a couple that I spoke with in the book, actually. I spoke with her, not him as part of this couple, and this woman was divorced young and got got married young and divorced young, and was in. A relationship and married to someone else. And the first time when they were dating and they argued, she was used to like an off the rails argue, shouting with her former partner and her new partner at the time said to her, I want you to come and sit right next to me and I wanna be. Our legs to be like touching each other. And I, it's [00:35:00] funny, in my head, I have them sitting side by side on a sofa touching each other, but I don't, their legs. I don't know if they were like knee to knee or whatever it was. And he was like, I want us to figure this out quietly, and I want us to look at each other and have it out this way.

Because I want you to know how much I love you and that I don't want you to feel abandoned during this interaction. And so that question to me, it made me think of that moment in the book of what makes you feel seen or heard, cool that they had that moment together of, arguments can drive people apart, but if we really wanna solve this, we want the other person to be seen.

So let's solve this in a very caring, civilized way. For that couple that worked, someone else might say, if I need to feel seen I need you to go cook my favorite dinner tonight. And that's okay. The point is that you [00:36:00] understand for yourself what makes you feel seen and are able to communicate it with someone else.

Arthur: What a genius thing to do,

Lindsay: so good.

Arthur: So there's a few, there's a few more questions. Which I will reel off and then maybe get some comments on. So how are we different and could this be a source of future conflict? What a genius question. What do you need in moments of emotional overwhelm?

What's more important to you? Stability or risk taking? How do you define emotional safety in a relationship? What makes you feel desired and connected, and how do you want to be loved? The first one there, just the concept of how do you think we're different and how you think that could be a source of future conflict.

Genius,

Lindsay: so this is a question that is so unique to whomever is asking it, right? This could be physical differences. This could be cultural [00:37:00] differences. This could be religious differences. This could be money differences. This could be, I want children and you don't. That's fundamental. Can we work through this?

Could that be a source of future conflict? Yeah. Definitely, or, we're different religions. But actually I actually don't think it will be a source, a future conflict because, our families are different. We have different beliefs and our political opinions are different.

That's pretty polarizing right now. So again, this is step one, why I like this for single people. Is that all of the questions that you rattled on, in that list they were all about sort emotional availability. But even when you're single, you can't answer a question of how we're different.

But if you understand yourself, you'll be in a place to really analyze that. When you find someone you like.

Arthur: And there are, amazing messages. Love being a commitment, not just a feeling. [00:38:00]Resentment often be building from expectations aren't met. And also, you know how independence is very important in a relationship. Co-dependence isn't of,

Lindsay: something that you said, resentment. Building from expectations that aren't met. So resentment's pretty dangerous in a relationship. But if you don't set your expectations, I don't mean in a nasty body here's a list of things I need, but if you don't set a baseline level of expectations, you will be disappointed.

If you don't communicate your expectations, you will be disappointed and become resentful. But that starts with you for making your needs, your desires, being so comfortable. With yourself and with this other person. That shouldn't be hard to do.

Arthur: And also, it's all well, feeling disappointed that needs weren't met, but the other person might not really understand the complexity as to like, [00:39:00] why that was a need. Like again, people are very different.

Lindsay: Expectations are the problem there, right? So if you are hoping that your partner takes out the trash every night before bed, and you're like secretly going to bed angry. That it's not done. But you think your partner should just assume to do that or know to do that because it bothers you, that falls to you.

You have to say to them, Hey, kindly, there's one thing that I really would appreciate if it could be on, your list versus mine. Can you just take out the trash before we go to bed? That's it. Now they have to do it. They have to want to do it. They have to understand that this is real for you.

That one little thing makes you wanna have sex at night because you feel like your needs to, your question are being met.

Arthur: you also make the point about how important questions are continually people want to feel seen and loved, right? These are like human natural [00:40:00] things that we all want. But equally, sometimes, conflict can be the source of so much value.

Do you have views around how people can do conflict good be good? Conflict

Lindsay: I do. I really do. I think, so one question that I get probably the most feedback on that is people's favorite. Hones right in on that, it's how do we argue? How do you argue? How do I argue? And if you are, I'll give me as an example. I like to talk things out. I like to go full force.

If we disagree on something, I kind of wanna work it out right there. Like my mind is spinning and I'm working fast and my husband's the opposite. He wants to digest. He, he's the finance numbers maths guy. He wants to spreadsheet this argument in his mind and work out all possible cells, and take a deep breath and then come back.

And, when you put me against that doesn't work. That does not [00:41:00] work because I'm coming here and he's pulling back. And so when you answer the question. Of how do you argue and you understand how you do it and how your partner does it. When you actually argue, you can find a way of arguing. So you're not arguing about how you argue.

You can argue about what the problem is. So I get it out and then take a minute and instead of just going, I know he needs a minute. He does his thing. I do my thing. We all take a deep breath when he organizes his thoughts, then we come back together and we're like, okay, let's discuss. So I had a minute to get it out.

He had a minute to take a step back, and then we come together and then we're not frustrated with how the other ones argue. Pattern is different. We can hone in on what the actual issue is.

Arthur: And sometimes. Yeah, totally. Thanks for sharing that. And sometimes, part of it is actually [00:42:00] just being able to share things, right? Being heard rather than necessarily logistical parts of the equation.

Lindsay: I think too, if you find someone who you really do feel like you're 1000000% yourself with, that's such a huge win. Life is hard enough. So if you feel like you can't be yourself or you're pretending or you feel certain pressures with someone that don't feel right to you, then that really is an indication that you might not be with the right person or that there are things you have to communicate with them about.

Arthur: Yeah, Susan Quilum, who kindly came on this podcast, talked about really got to find someone that you want to do the work with, right? You want to dig deep, you want to be patient and. There's a lot to be said around that and what's behind that?

Is that like respect for the person? How do you build that?

Lindsay: She said something like, if you want, you need to want to care about what they're going through, right? So if someone, if you're in a [00:43:00] relationship with someone and you realize oh, I don't really actually Care, I'd rather be off with my friends right now than helping them to solve this problem, then that's a pretty big indication of something.

Why? Why are you feeling that way?

Arthur: Yeah. And almost definitely makes one thing that you know that there is space. You have to make space when you are in that relationship to do your own thinking. With yourself let alone with that person. We are now gonna move into the quickfire questions. Three things you get joy from

Lindsay: hearing my children laugh. Getting my hair blown dry and hot. Hot weather.

Arthur: which are you far away from now?

Lindsay: Our we are going on holiday in about four weeks to warm weather, and we've had, we're in London right now and we've had, as two days of cold weather. I'm just already done with it.[00:44:00]

Arthur: Yeah. Amen. Amen. A mantra you want to embrace now would be

Lindsay: I choose happiness.

Arthur: one unusual thing that gives you pleasure.

Lindsay: Watching Love Island,

Arthur: a favorite book, film or artist that isn't obvious.

Lindsay: Oscar Wild is my favorite playwright.

Arthur: Best advice ever received.

Lindsay: You do, you,

Arthur: the world works in a certain way today. If you were given $50 million budget that could push any message or unravel this phenomenal story, what would that be?

Lindsay: At this moment, I. Really wanna teach people how to have happy, healthy love first of yourself, and then with others. I guess if I had $50 million to do it I would do it from somewhere beautiful, somewhere warm with a blow dry while watching Love Island with my family and [00:45:00]friends. And I would use the money to, put people in happy situations with good food to nourish their bodies, nourish their souls, nourish their hearts, and obviously, copies of my book.

Arthur: Lindsay, thank you so much today. It's been a pleasure.

Lindsay: Thank you for having me.