Following Passion: Wine Podcaster Hugo Brooks

27 Oct

What would be the three takeaways? to people you would give to help them have a better relationship. I'm going to start with a controversial one.

Okay. This is really specific to me and it's not, we're not, it's not going to sound very controversial this by the way. , but number one, I don't think champagne flutes are a good vessel. In which to drink champagne. Okay. So I would drink champagne from a wine glass. It will give you infinitely more pleasure.

So the next time you're at a party and someone gives you a fleet, tell them to fuck off. No, no, no, no, don't do that

Introduction and Welcome

Welcome to the Collective Podcast. Today we're interviewing Hugo Brooks. Hugo, welcome. Thank you very much, Arthur. Thank you for inviting me to my own studio.

It's a good point, actually. Hugo's been very kind in lending us his podcast studio. Welcome. And what's behind you here? Oh, the Premiere Crew. This is, Premiere Crew, bees knees. Yeah, it's my poster for my wine podcast. [00:01:00] So, there's a reason why Hugo's here today to be interviewed. He's got such a zest, a zest for life.

So much energy and, the podcast is really around giving people insight into different worlds. To hopefully inspire. , so Hugo, thanks for your time.

Quick Fire Questions with Hugo

We're not going to make your life easy. We're going to, we're going to start with a big difficult. With quick fire questions. Are you, feeling ready for that?

I'm ready, I'm ready. Okay, so three things you get joy from. Three things I get joy from. Friends and family, food and wine, and I prepared a joke for the last one but I can't remember, I'm not allowed to say the joke. So the final one will be art and design. A mantra you would want to embrace now would be?

It's not a mantra but it's a nice quote is, when you want something the whole universe conspires to support you. Lovely, one unusual thing that gives you pleasure. One unusual. Well, it's not that unusual, but I guess it doesn't really fit in my personality, which is fishing. Oh, actually, I've [00:02:00] got a better one.

Maybe the sea. Okay. Yeah, that's not that unusual. Well, the fishing is quite fun. Yeah, the fishing. Are you a carp in the lakes, man? I'm definitely not a carp in the lakes, although I can get behind it. I can get behind it. Okay. A favorite film, book or artist that isn't obvious that you,

well, I'm obliged to say Aaron O'Keefe. Okay, who's that? Well, she's a photographer, but in her photographs she combines different mediums, sculpture, painting, and then obviously she takes photos of the sculptures she paints. But the reason that I'm obliged to say is because A, it is one of my favourite artists, but B, I was very kindly gifted it by all of my friends and organised by my girlfriend.

Amazing, amazing. And the best advice, that you've ever received, what would be, that is almost impossible. But I got sent, , once a very nice quote by someone. , in a good moment, when I needed it. , and the quote is, I'm trying to remember it now.

, [00:03:00] the quote is, Worrying drains my energy. Does not empty tomorrow of its sorrow, it drains today of its strength. Beautiful, beautiful. There you go, look at that. That's how he has the zest for life. The zest. How do you get over a tough meeting? I think the key is just having perspective and awareness.

Um, because when you've got self awareness, uh, you can understand when you're struggling and stuff and have compassion, which allows you to get over at least some of the hurdles that you're imposing upon yourself. And then also having a bit of perspective, because most stuff isn't actually that bad.

Hugo's Interests and Passions

Something you want to learn more about? I'd say self awareness, just like keeping on going on that journey. But there's tons of books now out there, , which are becoming more and more relevant, , in society and getting a lot more airtime. So the opportunity to learn about that is becoming much more democratized and, , democratized and [00:04:00] made available.

Um, so yeah, I think, I think that would be something I'd be keen to learn more about. And you can add one thing to your bucket list today. What would that be? I would actually like to travel the world with my kids. I mean, I haven't got kids, but when I have kids, I would quite like to do like a lot of traveling.

It doesn't mean I have to go on one big trip, but I would like to take them to different parts of the world, see it through their eyes, , and also just give them like different perspectives at a young age, I think it's really important. Something you wish you knew when you were younger? Ooh, something I wish I knew when I was younger.

, just to have fun. What unusual interest or passion, , do you have? An unusual passion or interest? Well, I guess the fishing is a bit odd. I mean, that's probably like the weirdest one I can think of. But I do have quite a lot of weird things. So it's hard to actually think of them all. I [00:05:00] think What about Japanese art?

Oh God, the Japanese art. Yeah, I have like, I do, I am very interested in these woodblock prints, that Japanese artists do. And it was quite funny because we went on holiday together and I bought a sort of Bible on them, which everyone was sort of quite obscurely looking at. But yeah, Japanese woodblock prints, that's definitely one.

And what do they give you? Because I know you, what if you hang on? Oh yeah, well I've got a lot hanging in my bedroom, but I just find them, there's a couple of things I find that. Not intellectually is the wrong word, but there's a couple of things I find interesting about them, which is one, given how long ago they're made, they actually are really, really minimal.

So for the outline of a face, it's just one line, which is something that you'd see in a lot of contemporary art now, but they were doing that say, in the 1800s and before. So that's super cool from an artistic point of view. But also, then I just find them very peaceful. And they're just quite nice.

Super interesting. Very peaceful and tranquil. [00:06:00] The world works in a certain way today. It's quite an open ended question. What would you change, if you could change anything about the way the world, in which the world works? I think we just, just want more love, less, less, less conflict. We like that.

Actually conflict can be quite good. Maybe just , more, more love, less suffering. And if you could leave one message to people before you. You've had your time on this planet. What would that be? One message. Oh my God. Uh, I think it would be, yeah, something around what I just said. Oh, probably just like, thank you.

And I love you lots. Keep it simple. So long and thanks for all the fish. So, super interesting. So, we haven't really heard your story yet, but, uh, it's been interesting getting some, some trinkets of information, what you like. Yeah. You know, we've, we've touched on the carp, , the Japanese, Japanese art.

Um, you clearly got quite a lot of [00:07:00] interest, you go.

Hugo's Current Projects

So, you know, tell us a bit about what you're, what you're, what you're doing now and, and what that gives you. Okay. Well, I'll tell you what I'm doing before we dive into what it gives me. But I've currently, as I made a sort of slightly insane decision to quit my job about a year and a bit ago, , from the world of consulting.

And then now, uh, I've started. Trying to do some more things for myself. One of them is this wine podcast called The Premiere Crew, which that kind of in a nutshell has the aim to introduce people to the best of the wine and food trade in the UK by probably more wine focused than food focused. So that's one of my projects.

And then I've got another two projects that are sort of getting off the ground now, which is exciting. , and one of them is about helping freelancers to earn more money whilst doing the same amount of work that they currently do. And there's a big gap in the market because a lot of freelancers haven't had the business education that people who go through sort of grad schemes and corporate [00:08:00] training schemes go through.

So there's a big opportunity to help them with biz dev. And there's also like a professional services challenge with all of this, which is that people who are in professional services jobs, so something like, let's say design or something of that nature, They are taught to be good at that function, but they're not necessarily taught how to grow a business around that function.

And so they suddenly go into a freelance capacity and are lost. So that's project number two. And then project number three is, , also doing some freelance consulting myself, mainly in branding and marketing. Super exciting. So and so wine, because we've discussed this over the years.

Um, as you know, you're seeing in the background, it's quite a number of what nice wine. Oh, yeah. Do you care to pronounce this one? Oh, well, that one is Sean. What is that one? That's a Bergen. That's a red Burgundy. But so it's from the region of Burgundy. And it's by an amazing producer is very esteemed called Arman Russo.

And it's called Sean Brattain, which is a sub region within Burgundy, but it's probably [00:09:00] big shit. There we go. Big shit. Talking of big shit. That really is, that is.

The World of Wine

So , wine's been a big part of your world for a long time now. , why the interest in wine? ,

what does it give you? Yeah, what does it give me? I guess there's three things that I really like about it. One, is it makes the good times better. Yeah. Which is really nice. So there's like a sort of celebration aspect of it. whenever you drink wine typically, especially before you get nerdy about it, you pretty much always have it with friends and family over the dinner table.

And it is just another, it's the cherry on the cake. You're already having a great time. You're with the people you love, probably eating something delicious, hopefully. And then it's just the cherry on the cake that it just makes those good times even better. Which I think is like. Very nice.

It's something to be shared, something to be celebrated. So I guess it performs like a nice social function. Then there's also then like an intellectual side of it that's quite fun. And I'm somewhat, there are, I think people [00:10:00] either go like really broad on things.

So they have tons of little interests, but they maybe not really, really understand a specific niche. They're not really in depth on it. Or you've got people who like to go quite hard on things and really like to know a lot about it. And I'd probably sit somewhere in the two, but if I put myself more in one camp than the other, I'd probably like to go quite deep on a smaller number of things.

And I feel like with wine, one of the things, if you're of that personality nature, it's quite good because there's kind of like an, it never ends. Yeah. It literally never ends. Every year, there's a new vintage in every single region in the world. And there's like thousands, hundreds of thousands of wine producers globally.

And we're so lucky in the UK because we have, we probably have the best access to wine globally in the world because we don't really have a domestic market and we've got good links with the main producing countries. So for me It's a never ending game and that's probably why [00:11:00] I like football, that football never ends.

Every season it restarts. Yeah. There's endless amounts, you can watch it. So I feel like, I quite like Passions which you can go really really deep on and they don't end. And then the third one for you. , there's just pure hedonism isn't there? Where it just, obviously I think it tastes amazing as well.

Yeah, interesting. is there an area that you don't, you kind of lose interest in it? Is it the chemistry or how, it's made or, yeah, I'm not a science guy, but I do, enjoy learning about it. Yeah, I do enjoy learning about it.

'cause ultimately most of the decision making Yeah. You know, or the, the, chemistry and stuff. , I don't wanna call it chemistry 'cause I don't know Scooby about the chemistry side of it, but all of that decision making, you shouldn't in theory be able to taste. And then if you're interested in why it tastes a certain way, it's kind of inescapable, but you touch on it at some stage.

So it's interesting, but a lot of it is just good farming, , the humble farming. The humble farming. Cause it's, it's, it's, in one sense, there's a lot of glamour in wine, you know, you drinking [00:12:00] amazingly different, , people drinking all sorts of places, but there's something really simple about, I think we've really lost that, but it's because, um, And I think wine's changing a lot, which is probably one of the most exciting things that is becoming, slightly more democratized, like the coolest places now where you drink wine, certainly in places like London, but dynamic, modern cities like London, uh, you know, Paris in particular, , you know, it's getting much more laid back and wine services become, , less about wearing a sort of black tie and more about, , looking hip and shortage, uh, and, sharing, like, creating a relaxed culture around it, which is really, really healthy, but back to your point about, it's all, it's always been this performance art, the world of sommeliers, the world of fine dining and people who can afford to drink the bottles, and that's created, , a culture that's very far divorced from the actual vineyard where the work's done, which is actually Very good farmers tending to their crop, not dissimilar to someone who grows the humble [00:13:00] potato.

Yeah, that's really interesting. But it's very far removed. Yeah, that's super interesting. So, wine exists in a certain way in the world today. , be it distribution, product, kind of, you know, as you allude to, like, how people drink it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Access to Fine Wines

If you could change one of these things what would you, what would you change?

It would be somehow giving more people access to the finest wines. Okay. Obviously they're in, it's an impossible thing because they're in very finite supply and high demand, which means that they've got a high price tag. So that's just, supply and demand dynamics, but it would be really cool for like, you know, people.

To be able to access some of the coolest bottles, that, you know, unfortunately cost a lot.

The Future of Wine Culture

But as I said, I think society's moving or the wine industry is moving into a great direction whereby Culturally and the way that it's drunk and the way that it's poured to people and the culture in which it's [00:14:00] celebrated is becoming a lot more relaxed and actually culturally cool, which is very exciting.

But the last bit of that is then for a certain echelon of the fine wine market, price is just a barrier to, 99 percent of the population. So because actually looking, so for anyone listening to this, this podcast, please give, yeah, link, like, subscribe. Link, like, subscribe. Um, the man's done this before.

, and, so it's pretty cool because you know, Hugo, what he does is he interviews all sorts of really different interesting people in the wine world and the food, food world. And he really kind of, , you know, he, he, Hugo, you know, you're a great storyteller. You really bind people into these complex, um, Topics, , are from from the production process to, , one regions explaining great varieties, um, all sorts of complete goes above my head.

, but there is a lot of about what you seem to do from the outside, which is, which is to, you know, to level up, everyone to, to,, to, to educate, to, to, , entertain, [00:15:00] to, to kind of distribute, , this information, which is in many ways sort of. Publish in somewhat a how, how would one put it, uh, quite formal, sort of, um, in a formal way and, you really do that.

So, you know, looking, looking back, let's say 20 years from now, , let's say you could, you could do anything in the wine world, be anywhere, anyone you wanted to be in the wine world. What would your impact be? What would you want impact to be? And who would you wanna be? Would it,, tell us about it.

Is, is that having a, in the most elaborate way possible, what would be the dream for you? I think the coolest thing You here were under this amazing Yeah. Logo designed olivia. Olivia . Um, yeah. Uh, designed by Olivia. Yeah. Um, what would you, what would you, uh, what would you, who do you wanna be?

Creating a Global Wine Community

Uh, I think, well, if I had like an ambition for it, I mean, in those like lofty vague sense, I think the coolest thing to do would be to create, and I, it doesn't really matter on the scale, but taking it to its maximum, a global wine community in which [00:16:00] people use it as a means to connect and share their passion.

And we're just very lucky in the age that we've been brought up in. via social media effectively it's now more possible than ever to connect with different types of people and to create communities that are really powerful. We are not kind of like the concept of being an influencer, but it's not about influencing, but you can actually gain a lot of people listening to you and also listening to each other and bringing them together via that channel and That would be super cool to have all sorts of people from different parts of the world.

And then to also , find ways to connect them physically in the future. We did our first tasting in July, which was super fun. Where was that again? Uh, in Peckham. In, in deep as dark as Peckham. No, no, no, it's great. But it was, it was tons of fun, cause like we met people who obviously listened to us that I'd never met before.

, and it was quite funny. I went into a restaurant the other day and, , the [00:17:00] barman actually recognized me, which was super, really well, but it's just little things like that. You it's not about , fame or influencing, but it's creating actually genuine community where people come together and that can take place in an online world, but hopefully in a physical world and you can access a global audience.

Yeah. Super interesting.

Personal Growth and Perseverance

So , it's given you a lot, , I mean, what, what, what has it given you, embracing this, this passion of yours? , I think it obviously has made me like happy and curious, which is great. The second one that I think also is perseverance, because I think when you're passionate about something, , you keep going with it.

And a big part of the reason that a lot of projects fail is no matter what you do or how successful it will be, or is, At some stage, you will encounter problems and things that don't work and piss you off. And it's only if you've got enough money coming in or you like it enough. Yeah. One of the two, hopefully a combination.

Yeah. That you're going to keep going. [00:18:00] Yeah. With the project. So I think that's something that I've learned and it's probably going to be the most valuable lesson from this, whether it continues or not. Mm. Super interesting. Super interesting. Uh, and,, I mean, you know, do you look back at, because I mean, before you were in consulting, you were learning a lot, you know, you were with a lot of different, interesting people working in fascinating companies, here you are today, you know, , you know, you're the driver of your own ship and, in the moments that you're on your own, it's, it's, it's, it's dark, what carries you through and, what's your advice to people who, for you?

Maybe some of those people have made a jump, maybe they're doing something that they quite enjoy, but there is still that slightly feeling of , a bit unsettled. What's your advice for people? , do you feel like we, we, I guess the impression is no one has all the answers at any point, right?

, yeah, what's your impression? I feel when the going gets tough. You just got to take it day by day, down, whatever it is, it's a problem into [00:19:00] something quite small and manageable and then take it day by day and keep going. And the reality is, is that all these feelings you have will come and go.

So when it occurs, remember that it will fade. If you keep going, obviously there comes a stage where you also have to take a step back. And look at what you're doing and saying, is it giving me what I want? But that's why, for example, even with this project, I've now started two other projects because I recognize that I need to supplement what this isn't giving me with other things, but you can still keep it going.

Are you finding that you've found yourself more excited about life in general, because you're following something you really enjoy? Do you find that your, has it changed the way that your energy with people, or has it changed your relationship with yourself? It's definitely changed my relationship with myself.

I don't think other people so much, but it's harder for me to probably say that. But it's definitely changed my relationship with myself because you have to be very honest with yourself, connected, and ultimately you have to spend a lot of time by yourself. Super true. Yeah. Super true. [00:20:00] But I think the thing that, I think the thing that also drives me is that if you asked me, even when things go wrong, Would I like to be the people that I was on a ladder to become?

And I hope they're not listening to this. I would say no. So that's quite good as a starting point, because no matter how bad I'm screwing up, I still don't want that. So, that already is like a good starting point because you can't look back and with that much regret or, or, you know uh, loss of faith in what you're doing, because if you intuitively know that that's not the answer you want for your life, well, you're better off just trying something else.

And then you can always change what you're doing. Yeah. And I'm just thinking, I mean, perhaps there's all different, all sorts of different people listening to this, different ages.

Advice for the Young and Ambitious

If you met someone, , young, who, struggling at school, you know, thinking we're not exactly old, struggling at school and thinking, oh, like what's next, like, what, what would you [00:21:00] say to someone?

I'd say just, just follow your intuition. If you're really young, follow into intuition and your heart, but also remember you have time. It's probably something I should be telling myself as well. You have a bit more time than you think. And obviously, like, it just depends on what your intuition, your instinct is telling you.

But, you do have time at that age. But I would follow your heart, but make, but also recognize that you do have time. So take the pressure off and treat yourself with compassion. Yeah, yeah. And have fun. Interesting, and the people that you look up to in the world, um, I'd love to hear a little bit more about, perhaps there's some really small things that you know about those people that you want to carry on.

Admiration for Service and Entrepreneurship

I do have a lot of admiration for people who do their own thing or start their own thing, and I think it's really, I think the like cult of the entrepreneur is like viciously over celebrated in our society. it's actually like a dangerous thing that we've created where, , we celebrate people who create [00:22:00] their own things, it's really hard and it's not cut out for everything.

And there's a lot of circumstance that needs to be in place for those people. But I do have a massive respect at the same time for those because I think to create something out of nothing. When it's really just your willpower and your smarts that's got you there. It does say quite a lot about the person who's, created that, that concept.

So there's a lot of admiration I have for that and stuff that I'd like to take into my own life. And then the other sort of segment of people that I always admire is people who purely give their lives to the service of others. So , public sector people. Didn't necessarily just have to be public sector, but that's a really good example.

It feels weird saying it, because we've had such abysmal, people in power and in charge in this country, but, , like the concept of being like an MP or, , an NHS doctor or whatever it is, should be something that we really, really celebrate because ultimately people are doing things that they, their brains are probably.

[00:23:00] qualified to get paid more for, but are doing it because, hopefully, I think in the case of MPs, it's pretty tenuous. They're trying to do it for public good. Yeah, it's funny. , , you talk about people you admire and, we are, there, there, there are very different worlds that are right next door to us, right?

And professions or people spending their time doing states of mind, that kind of thing. Do you, do you deliberately try and shift into being aware of that what do you mean? Awareness of? Of sort of just, just like different worlds happening. I think that, , in, people talk about the world being more isolated, right?

Despite that we're already connected digitally. Do you ever feel, that you're, you sometimes over gear on thinking about your world? And how do you, how do you try and close that gap? Yeah, 100 percent because life's all consuming, isn't it? Most of the time. You can get very knee deep in your, in your, in your own issues and problems and forget that there's actually, everything on your.

doorstep [00:24:00] and there's tons of people and communities doing all sorts around you. But I think that's just the nature. when you just get too in deep, you've got to pull yourself back out somehow and just have a bit of perspective and realize everything's kind of that you need is available to you.

Yeah. Speaking of everything needing Everything we need being quite available, some very nice things here. Unluckily for you, the bottles are empty.

Wine Tips and Fun Facts

So Hugh, for people who don't, haven't really learned much about wine, just swinging back into the wine world , tell us an interesting fact about wine, something that we perhaps don't know.

Ooh, that's a tough one. Listen, I'm not going to do an interesting fact, because Typically, when I try to come up with one interesting fact, it's actually invariably completely uninteresting. Well, actually, that's exactly what I want. Um, no, it'll probably be incredibly boring. I'll tell you one thing that I'm getting quite into. Which other people should try is Greek wine. Greek wine, okay. Yeah, I think Greek wine's a real hit. And it's [00:25:00] really delicious. Two reasons. Two reasons. One, tons of native grape varieties that people don't typically drink.

So they're only, they're native to Greece. Okay, okay. Which is cool. Interesting. Because you don't get those grape varieties in France, uh, or elsewhere in the world. Yeah. So I think that's super exciting because it gives it its own, unique flavor. Everything's got a unique quality to it, but there is something definitively unique about the heritage and stuff.

And then the second one is that they represent really good value. , some of the top end ones do test everyone's patience, but that's like every wine region, but they represent really good value and you can find really good, , drinking wine coming in and it's sort of somewhere between 10 and 25 quid.

That I know for most people, they'll probably be shocked that I call that drinking wine rather than fine wine they represents like really good value. So that's one to look out for, but all the wines from that part of the world, you know, Lebanese wine, one of my favorite wines from Lebanon, Chateau Moussa.

Okay. Wow. Um, so yeah, that would be my little hot tip, if you like, rather than one interesting fact. [00:26:00] So, . We, we do so much in the wild world, , things that we, we've barely been taught, right? People cook and they haven't, a lot of people haven't been trained on how to cook, etc, etc.

Um, what would you say, can you think of three ways in which we, people drink wine or, you know, where they, they fuck things up. They don't know how to prepare the wine, pour the wine. What would be the three takeaways? to people you would give to help them have a better relationship. I'm going to start with a controversial one.

So the next time you're at a party and someone gives you a fleet, tell them to fuck off. No, no, no, no, don't do that. So no, no, that's a personal thing. Uh, so there's a little trick number one. Trick number two more broadly is with red wine, like it seldom doesn't benefit from [00:27:00] a decant. If it's over , you know, twenty quid, just whack it in a decanter for an hour.

I mean, you'll make mistakes. But I'd say just as a general rule of thumb, because people just pop the cork, pour six bottles of glasses to their friends, but , a lot of wine, , kind of needs a bit of, bit of air time. And then with white wine, don't serve it too cold, unless it's shit. Love that.

Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Well Hugh, it's been such a pleasure to have you here, and , we're so grateful. Thank you very much. Hey, the Collective Institute of Ideas, begins here, begins here. Here we go.

Arthur Lonsdale